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Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

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Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#381

Post by EricE »

mandmandam wrote: post #17
mrits wrote: post #5

Yeah, let's focus on the company that pays their employees 15x minimum wage and has top tier vacation, healthcare, and maternity/paternity leave.

While helping ICE traumatize kids for life, and illegally surveilling employees who quit over it. Ew.

You know what really traumatizes kids for life? "compassionate" policies that encourage parents to sell their kids to the cartels who then sell them to people to use as shields to get across the boarder. When DHS does bother to paternity test "families" coming across the boarder some horrendous percentage of the kids were not related to the "parents".

You want to not traumatize kids? Have proper boarder control and don't tell people if they manage to sprint across the boarder they will get a bunch of free stuff.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#382

Post by gremlinsinc »

bradleyjg wrote: post #156

It’s a real shame that the middle and upper classes in the US have abandoned having their teens work in favor of various, expensive, college application boosting fluff. I went to work at McDonalds at age 15 and was part of a union. I have direct experience with what that is like. I don’t need to get my knowledge on the subject from flamewars between people pushing ideological agendas (most of whom themselves have app…

Was this at an imaginary McDonad's? McD's was my first job back in 96 at 16. They didn't have any unions then, and I've not seen or heard of any existing.

For the most part most fast food restaurants do not have any unions.

You want to look at a good example of a union look at the one for Autoworkers. My friend's dad growing up was in a good factory job, no college. He was earning >$22/hour, plus a pension, plus decent time off for vacations and things and the mom could be a stay-at-home mom.

Even on a programmer's salary, my wife and I still barely make our bills today. Rent's skyrocketed, cost of living has skyrocketed, and you need not look any further than the fact that nearly ever CEO (read: Billionaire) almost unamously has the goal to keep you, me, and everybody they know out of a Union.

Unions are not socialism. There is nothing bad about unions, some are better than others taken together all are better than none.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#383

Post by gremlinsinc »

vgeek wrote: post #316

Andrew Carnegie and Henry Clay Frick would be proud. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike The whole "we're highly paid, ruggedly individualistic engineer" schtick buys into what the companies want. Sure, you may make 400k total comp as a SWE, but what if it were 500k had your employer was not been actively plotting ways to distort the labor market through collusion with competing companies. If activist sh…

Most of these corps have cafe's, and people commute, and if everybody in SWE field is making $500k and housing/rent shows it... the union should also then fight for people at restaurants, etc to get compensated by the same companies that employ them, because it's gonna be kinda shitty living in a big city where basically the only rec activities are work and going home because service industry is a ghost town.

I agree it can make life better for people in the co, just saying unions need to join forces and create syndicates of unions and really bring teeth against the powers of big companies.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#384

Post by mandmandam »

EricE wrote: post #381
mandmandam wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While helping ICE traumatize kids for life, and illegally surveilling employees who quit over it. Ew.

You know what really traumatizes kids for life? "compassionate" policies that encourage parents to sell their kids to the cartels who then sell them to people to use as shields to get across the boarder. When DHS does bother to paternity test "families" coming across the boarder some horrendous percentage of the kids were not related to the "parents". You want to not traumatize kids? Have proper boarder control and d…

You can't spell 'border', but want to debate immigration policy?

Why would I hope for intelligent or even articulate thought from you on this?

Do you have anything less batty and more interesting than "ICE should paternity test families that cross the border" to offer here?

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#385

Post by truffdog »

mleonhard wrote: post #334
e40 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really bothers me that we've all accepted (not you or me specifically, but every time I see unions discussed it's the subtext) that we have two choices: no union or a shitty union. Why can't we work for a union that is good? If the answer is that humans are involved and it'll never be possible, then that could be applied to anything and is an absurd answer. This is not a strawman, I've heard that argument many tim…

In USA, unions mostly represent blue-collar workers who tend to elect low-quality union leaders. A union at Google could end up with better leaders than the company itself.

Blue collar unions probably don't have bad unions because they are uneducated, and you probably won't love a programmer's union because the leaders have postdocs.

For white collar equivalents with bad unions, consider the teachers unions, and the constant fight over tenure and charter schools. Or the American Medical Association and their successful constriction of supply in the world's most overpriced Healthcare environment.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#386

Post by exikyut »

mleonhard wrote: post #334
e40 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really bothers me that we've all accepted (not you or me specifically, but every time I see unions discussed it's the subtext) that we have two choices: no union or a shitty union. Why can't we work for a union that is good? If the answer is that humans are involved and it'll never be possible, then that could be applied to anything and is an absurd answer. This is not a strawman, I've heard that argument many tim…

In USA, unions mostly represent blue-collar workers who tend to elect low-quality union leaders. A union at Google could end up with better leaders than the company itself.

Which would then obviously make it attractive to switch from working from the company to working for the union. And now the union is even stronger.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#387

Post by ergocoder »

mrits wrote: post #267
_wolfie_ wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how the union law works in the US. Over here (Europe), you can have multiple unions in one company. It takes minimal 3 people to form one. So you could probably form a union for pro-DoD people?

I'm not so sure a body full of people that voted for our politicians are going to indirectly fix their unethical behavior through a corporation.

Here lies the problem.

You don't even recognize others' point of view where they think it is perfectly fine.

You straight up imply other people (who voted for politicians) are unethical.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#388

Post by bradleyjg »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #382
bradleyjg wrote: post #156

It’s a real shame that the middle and upper classes in the US have abandoned having their teens work in favor of various, expensive, college application boosting fluff. I went to work at McDonalds at age 15 and was part of a union. I have direct experience with what that is like. I don’t need to get my knowledge on the subject from flamewars between people pushing ideological agendas (most of whom themselves have app…

Was this at an imaginary McDonad's? McD's was my first job back in 96 at 16. They didn't have any unions then, and I've not seen or heard of any existing. For the most part most fast food restaurants do not have any unions. You want to look at a good example of a union look at the one for Autoworkers. My friend's dad growing up was in a good factory job, no college. He was earning >$22/hour, plus a pension, plus dece…

Because you never heard of it you assume I’m lying?

If that’s how you conduct yourself I’m not surprised you can’t find a good job.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#389

Post by raxxorrax »

4ec0755f5522 wrote: post #180

When I was very young I worked a tough job that had a mandatory union and it was quite terrible / weak. Working conditions were pretty bad, physical labor, etc. But it was not until I worked a job with no union that I realized every element of that job that didn't suck was due to the union. For example we had supervisors but they didn't follow you around and micromanage you. You were just expected to do your job. If…

The quality of a union heavily depends on its leadership, which must be accountable to union members. But yes, a carefully conceived structure would make that possible.

Problem is when said leadership starts to advertise particular interests instead of focusing on compensation and safety (work place safety, not neurosis compensation). A young union cannot really focus on much more because it is unlikely that it will get the support it needs initially.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#390

Post by raxxorrax »

mleonhard wrote: post #334
e40 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really bothers me that we've all accepted (not you or me specifically, but every time I see unions discussed it's the subtext) that we have two choices: no union or a shitty union. Why can't we work for a union that is good? If the answer is that humans are involved and it'll never be possible, then that could be applied to anything and is an absurd answer. This is not a strawman, I've heard that argument many tim…

In USA, unions mostly represent blue-collar workers who tend to elect low-quality union leaders. A union at Google could end up with better leaders than the company itself.

I doubt that very much to be honest. Not that I believe that there aren't any smart people at Google.

I expect a Google union to force me to go to some sensitivity training instead of fighting for wages (which to be honest are pretty high as they are). So would it be about workplace safety? Probably not. Military projects? My deepest sympathy to everyone that is critical here, but maybe not really a classical union topic to be honest.

I guess Google also employs low wage workers for some tasks. Maybe they could use a union the most.

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