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More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

921–930 of 1001 posts

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#921

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The redefinition undermines what most would colloquially understand as a vaccine" It's very common for people outside of a profession to misunderstand terms from within that profession. That generally doesn't mean we get to redefine it on the fly. The Covid vaccines are vaccines because it is the correct and appropriate terminology to use within the fields that develop and administer vaccines. In terms of not being…

And yet there was very few attempts to remedy this mischaracterization from the onset. Government willfuly led people to believe that the covid vaccine would be like any other - it would inoculate the population, and all this would blow over.

I recall when the first results came out and though they were good, they were never 100%. And I certainly understand that no one was able to predict the way in which variants would develop, and to what degree they would reduce the effectiveness of the vaccines. In the end, vaccines have been more about reducing hospitalizations and deaths (which they do really well) than reaching herd immunity, but how was anyone supposed to know that a year ago?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#922
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the long term of effects of the vaccines are still very unclear. For adults and children. There are concerning reports regarding serious complications that tend to not get talked about very much in the media I chose to vaccinate myself. I don’t have kids, but I’m not sure it would be a given that I would vaccinate them yet. I think I would want to have a better understanding of the risks. Sorry you’re in…

According to [1] Mr Malone said "mRNA vaccine technology I created" which is not true as far as I can find tell. He did work on mRNA technology decades ago but didn't invent mRNA vaccines. He also states that "The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children's cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins.". What does that even mean, a "viral gene"? Toxic spike proteins? Sou…

The terminology 'viral gene' is not a made up fear mongering term... It's a plainly descriptive term. It is an encoding for a protein of a virus, in this case the modified c19 spike protein.

Also with regards to fundamental changes to the immune system - this is also true.

""" See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_antigenic_sin

Original antigenic sin, also known as antigenic imprinting or the Hoskins effect,[1] refers to the propensity of the body's immune system to preferentially utilize immunological memory based on a previous infection when a second slightly different version of that foreign pathogen (e.g. a virus or bacterium) is encountered. This leaves the immune system "trapped" by the first response it has made to each antigen, and unable to mount potentially more effective responses during subsequent infections """

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#923

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. Children don’t exist in isolation. They’re phenomenally good at spreading every infection to the rest of the household and everywhere else they go. Trying to focus on children's outcomes and ignoring all of the second-order effects is dishonest. Children don’t live alone.

The GP explicitly says he is concerned for his child, and that's the only thing under discussion in this thread. In that context, it's worth pointing out that RSV is more dangerous to help people think about how they process this current risk.

It has been frustrating to see how these two non-mutually exclusive points have been used to debate each other. We talk around each other and can't have a logical conversation.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#924

Between the 2nd dose putting me in the ER with myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of, and a $3500 medical bill due, being told I could be maskless and free if I got the "vaccine"[1], getting covid anyways and it being nbd, and then learning that the CDC redefined the meaning of "vaccine" for this treatment[2] (imo "immunotherapy" would be a more understandable word) -- yeah I'm done. I'm not risking an…

"The redefinition undermines what most would colloquially understand as a vaccine" It's very common for people outside of a profession to misunderstand terms from within that profession. That generally doesn't mean we get to redefine it on the fly. The Covid vaccines are vaccines because it is the correct and appropriate terminology to use within the fields that develop and administer vaccines. In terms of not being…

> and needing boosters,

Nothing wrong with needing boosters (eg you get one multiple years apart for MMR, you get one, what every decade with Tetanus?) , but every 6 months for only reduced risk of hospitalization is quite the stretch...

And my understanding is flu vaccines give great protection of getting anything from very specific strains, and lesser effects to varyingly differences in those strains[1]. This "vaccine" doesn't give great protection to any strain, unless "protection" just means you still get covid, but not hospitalized.

It's pretty disheartening to hear you essentially say that the professionals get to redefine words to benefit themselves to the detriment of the public...

[1]: https://uabmedicine.org/-/flu-strains-explained-and-how-the-...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#925
post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of I agree, it's now known as a "rare" side effect, but I wasn't aware either until after I got the vaccine. How did you know something was wrong? I think a lot of people (including myself) feel heart pain after the vaccine but aren't sure if it's worth going to a doctor about it.

I had heart/chest pain that slowly got more and more intense over the span of about 3-4 days after most of the 2nd dose side effects wore off. In hindsight I should have gone to the hospital much sooner for Heart attack symptoms, but I had an inkling it wasn't a heart attack because it entirely would go away if I laid on my side just so after about 60 seconds... and magically come back if I sat or stood up, and go aw…

I cant edit, so I'd add this anecdata

from those i've spoken with who had the same issue I think they should add this warning for Men (especially really fit men) under 40 -- "Do not engage in strenuous exercise for 1 month after getting your 2nd dose (maybe boosters too)" . All the cases i've heard they have been exercise onset. Mine was shortly after a I returned to the gym too, albeit for weight lifting.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#926

Between the 2nd dose putting me in the ER with myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of, and a $3500 medical bill due, being told I could be maskless and free if I got the "vaccine"[1], getting covid anyways and it being nbd, and then learning that the CDC redefined the meaning of "vaccine" for this treatment[2] (imo "immunotherapy" would be a more understandable word) -- yeah I'm done. I'm not risking an…

The CDC's explanation "interpreted to mean that vaccines were 100% effective, which has never been the case for any vaccine, so the current definition is more transparent, and also describes the ways in which vaccines can be administered" is totally on point and correct. People didn't really think about vaccines before and it wasn't a political thing where people are looking for gotchas like "They changed the definit…

> and it wasn't a political thing

Where you see "a political thing" I see "a trust thing". I have been burned too many times to sanely remain trusting . It's not politics I dont care if red/blue/pink/pirate team is pushing it, I have lost blind faith and now scrutinize as I'm able. And there used to be a time when I just trusted whatever came under the banner of "Science" thinking that smarter people than me were benevolently doing the best for all.

But since I've experienced unexpected costs I've done more research and been shocked at what I found, for example Pfizer the maker of my vaccine has been fined ~$5Bn over 75 separate situations over the past 20 years [1]. Or Merck paying out 4.7Bn in damages , $1Bn in fines -- but gathered $12Bn in sales[2] ... No one went to jail. There is too much corporatism[3] for me to trust. [1]: https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=p...

[2]: https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/joe-rogan-ne...

[3]: (i'm not against other strains of capitalism)

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#927

We still don't know if the omicron variant leads to "long COVID".[1] We'll know some time in February. That has a big effect on what to do next. Omicron-specific vaccines are in test. Moderna's should be out in Fall 2022. Pfizer claims March 2022.[2] The next generation in vaccine technology is the US Army / Walter Reed Medical Center broad-spectrum vaccine. This should protect against all COVID and SARS variants.[3]…

Harboring concern over long term risks of covid because o f lack of data, but unconcerned about long term risks from vaccines for covid because of lack of data? You MAY be brainwashed.

Historically, most vaccine problems show up early. First, there's the risk of an immediate allergic reaction, which, if it's going to happen, happens within minutes to hours.

Then there's the risk of an inactivated or weakened virus vaccine causing the disease it's supposed to prevent. That happened in a big way in 1955, with a defective batch of polio vaccine. The mRNA vaccines can't do that - they don't have an entire virus.

There's the Guillain-Barré syndrome with some vaccines, including the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine. If it shows, it does so in the first two months.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to [1] Mr Malone said "mRNA vaccine technology I created" which is not true as far as I can find tell. He did work on mRNA technology decades ago but didn't invent mRNA vaccines. He also states that "The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children's cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins.". What does that even mean, a "viral gene"? Toxic spike proteins? Sou…

> which is not true as far as I can find tell. He did work on mRNA technology decades ago but didn't invent mRNA vaccines. It was removed from wikipedia, but here's an archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20210614140319/https://en.wikipe... He invented the initial platform and performed the first mRNA vaccine experiments in 1989. There's 9 patents in his name for the platforms and his name is all over the or…

The wiki link you posted is the only version mentioning his name prominently. Neither before (https://web.archive.org/web/20210530162316/https://en.wikipe...) nor after. So I wouldn't call it "scrubbing". It'd be like me putting my name in there and calling it scrubbing when the next person removes it.

I trust consensus I guess but I'm not an expert in any of this at all so my ability to verify anything is quite limited. I might have made a mistake here but I'm still not convinced he's trustworthy.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#929

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

I sympathize. Our kid is in the next window (5-12) and it has been a grand relief to get him vaccinated but when everyone was excited that they were vaccinated we felt very left behind. We continue to be responsible with our behavior but we also have been relaxing and carefully opening up. You are not forgotten and lots of us still care. Hang on and best of luck!

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#930
post #535

Vaxxed and I caught Cov19 a couple weeks ago (likely omicron). Same with the wife. I've had allergies that were worse. It was a 3 day event with a very mild fever and a bit of a cough the last day. It was extremely mild, and if I hadn't decided to take a couple days off to catch up on my reading after getting tested, I would have probably just eaten a couple advil and continued on as though nothing happened. So now I…

The main reason to wear a mask is to prevent yourself from infecting others if/when you get infected again. One usually becomes infectious before the symptoms become obvious, i.e. before becoming aware of the new infection. Wearing a mask is mainly for the benefit of others, not for your own. And it’s a game of numbers. The larger the proportion of the population who wears a mask, the more the spread of the virus is…

Where I live (TX) I would say less than 30% of the population is wearing masks, and the governor has gone so far as to mandate that mask mandates are illegal (using emergency powers, which creates a bit of circular reasoning and are quite likely not a legitimate order, but... that's beside the point for my personal decisions).

I was one of the very small percentage actually wearing US made N95 masks, and assuring they were sealing. Probably 1/2 of the mask wearers are using surgical masks and various other pointless masks which leave massive gaps all around the mask, and are likely no more functional than simply coughing/sneezing into ones elbow. The other half recently seems to be using KN95's, which I used myself for a while before N95's became common. But, the vast majority of the amazon/etc KN95's are significantly thinner, and are very hard to seal. Maybe the actual KN95's for the Asian markets are better (definitely some of the early ones I sourced were closer to the N95s) but I'm pretty sure the majority of the ones I see people wearing are nowhere near N95 effectiveness even if people are taping the nose areas to assure they stay sealed, and I can't remember the last time I saw that.

So, for the most part "cover your cough" is probably all that is being achieved outside of less than 5% of the population that is assuring quality masks and sealing them properly.

I refuse the play the social signaling game, so it leaves the question. Am I going to legitimately continue to spend $ buying good masks, to potentially protect a small subset of the population when ~95% of people are doing basically nothing, or am I legitimately trying to protect myself.

In the end, I will probably continue to wear a mask if I'm around my neighbor in his 90's, but like the decision to eat in a full restaurant (which was said to be 100% vaccinated) in an area full of foreign tourists. I think my risk profile is going to be less about stopping spread now, and just living my life. The US government has a party that blocks all attempts at instituting scientific reasoning (and the other is barely better) so I will look towards personally preparing for the next pandemic or the next bad strain, but I'm not going to count on the government managing to do anything but make decisions that are late and ineffective. The ~30-40% of the population that refuses to get vaccinated, and a government that can't manage to control the spread of disease across the border have sealed our fate. I came to the conclusion 6 months ago that it was only a matter of time before I got it because the vaccines were going to be bypassed sooner or later. Sure enough, it took ~2 months from the detection of the new strain until I got it.

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