Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

moneyland.time.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 172 posts

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#91

Post by temphn »

krschultz wrote: post #72
nirvana wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "like it or leave it" isn't really a useful response, and it takes the discussion into the realm of politics. I'm not going to debate the politics, but since I did "leave it", I thought it might be enlightening to share a bit of my experience. (Leaving the USA had nothing to do with unemployment insurance.) It is not difficult to find first world situations that don't involve burdensome taxes or regulations.…

I don't throw out the 'love it or leave it' for 99% of posts on almost all issues, but when a person equates taxation with theft, it's just a lost cause. We can and should debate what to do with our tax money, but fundamentally the system always ends up in a state where some people are unhappy with some of the spending. There is no way to reconcile what those on the far right and far left want. We end up somewhere in…

Taxation is only feasible because the authorities have guns and use them to jail tax resisters. And 100% taxation is quite literally slavery. Do you seriously disagree with either of those two points?

No one signed up for continual boiling of the frog. Many, many millions of people in this country oppose this kind of divisive policy. A poor statesman rams it down people's throats by brute force. The consequence is that when the other party gets hold of the apparatus of state, turnabout is fair play.

Is that really what you want?

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#92

Post by temphn »

jeremymcanally wrote: post #7

The ignorance displayed in the comments on that article is scary. It's quite obvious a lot of people have never been in the position to actually need this sort of aid before, so it's easy to knock everyone using it as "an illegal" or "lazy." Of course people will abuse this, too, just like they abuse the unemployment insurance we have now. But to me, the net positives that come out of this will outweigh the (probably…

One word: Solyndra.

After they just wasted another $535M of taxpayer money in crony capitalist payments, why do you think it's "ignorance" to evince strong opposition to these kind of attempts at meddling in the economy?

VCs and angels fund selectively and with their own money. The govt funds politically and with other people's money. That selects for Chris Gronet and George Kaiser, not Mark Zuckerberg and Peter Thiel.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#93

Post by DiabloD3 »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #75
klbarry wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that for most jobs it isn't true that it's being done by slave labor. I know in China, factory jobs pay much more than the average job (2x-3x more). In India, call center workers are considered one of the upper rungs of society - they are thrilled to do it. This can hardly be called slave labor...

2-3x more than 5-10 cents an hour is still slave labor. Call centers may be well paying jobs in India, but I still view it as kicking an entire society while its down. In a way, its no different than back before the civil war, white plantation owners would have slaves work inside of the house, ie, a "house negro". The parallels between the two are rather scary. Its almost like the Civil War was lost in the sense that…

Wow, I'm getting down voted for pointing out slave labor in India is racist by drawing parallels from our own history.

Since when did the HN community support racism?

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#94

Post by stc »

sliverstorm wrote: post #80

In essence, the president’s plan will create a guaranteed source of startup capital... Is that necessarily a good thing? I was under the impression the whole "trial-by-fire" of a business plan looking for funding was a valuable testing grounds for the business-to-be.

Well you still get to do that when your $10,000 runs out.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#96

Post by [deleted] »

rada wrote: post #90

Whoa, the article is ageist, and proud of it. Though this program is geared toward people of all ages, young people are the best suited to maximize its advantages. Older generations tend to have families and other financial obligations, making it more difficult for them to transition into the roles of entrepreneurs. I am married with a young child, and my salary covers all of my family's expenses, so my husband doesn…

[deleted]

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#97

Post by anigbrowl »

sliverstorm wrote: post #81
hexis wrote: post #61

Starting a tech company is so cheap that funding should never be the bottleneck. If your idea is too expensive to start with a laptop and cheap hosting, think of another idea.

I rue the day when "tech company" came to equal "software company"... there are so many other kinds of tech, too.

Web software at that. HNot to pile on (I saw the comment below about sloppy wording), but there are a lot of other business models besides 'online service that does one thing really well'. If you want to create the next Photoshop or Excel, for example, you need to deliver a lot of functionality right from the get-go, which will take longer to build.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#98

Post by pkteison »

chopsueyar wrote: post #36
philiphodgen wrote: post #32

1. I run a business. Therefore I make jobs. Or don't. 2. If I fire an employee, a portion of the cost of that person's unemployment claims is charged back to me. The employer. It isn't government largesse that funds unemployment claims. It's me. 3. Will this program be yet another potential cost to me? Hard to tell from the PR and press-gab. We'll have to see the law and how it is implemented. Devil in the details, e…

If you fire an employee, why do you pay unemployment? I would understand if you laid them off, but firing? Also, if you are paying for their unemployment, why is unemployment being deducted from their paycheck too?

The employee files for unemployment insurance regardless, lying and claiming they were laid off. You file a dispute, claiming they were terminated for cause. The unemployment office makes it quite clear that you will lose your dispute and should drop it. You refuse, because you have a good clear case where clearly this guy was fired for cause. You present your good clear case, and you lose anyway, and the person fired for cause still gets unemployment, and your unemployment insurance rates go up.

That's just how it works. It's not how it's written, and it's not how it's supposed to work, but it's how it works.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#99

Post by anigbrowl »

temphn wrote: post #87
krschultz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other option for people who don't like it: leave the country. You wouldn't know it listening to most people complaining but unemployment insurance was not something implemented in 2008, it goes back to the 1930s. That should have been plenty of warning for you to find a place with a tax rate and entitlement system to your liking. Sorry, there aren't a lot of options in the 1st world without taxes and entitlments, but…

Singapore? Hong Kong? Your underlying assumption is that the US can increase taxes and regulations indefinitely without consequence. But capital and talent are more mobile than ever before. Record numbers have been renouncing citizenship in recent years (Google it). Most likely when the current flow of expatriation becomes a flood, though, there will suddenly be restrictions imposed on exit: an asset tax, a waiting p…

More people are abandoning US citizenship because a rule change in 2008 has made it simpler, cheaper, and less restrictive to do so: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/more-americans-...

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#100

Post by bentlegen »

rada wrote: post #90

Whoa, the article is ageist, and proud of it. Though this program is geared toward people of all ages, young people are the best suited to maximize its advantages. Older generations tend to have families and other financial obligations, making it more difficult for them to transition into the roles of entrepreneurs. I am married with a young child, and my salary covers all of my family's expenses, so my husband doesn…

> Young people care a lot more about what others think, the very foundation of "expensive lifestyles".

Speaking of ageist ...

Post reply on HN