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Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

moneyland.time.com

71–80 of 172 posts

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#71
post #27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have enough cash on hand.

Interestingly enough, neither does the US government.

The government can borrow money at negative interest rates. People are literally paying the U.S. government to take their money. It may have a large budget deficit, but the government has no shortage of cash.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#72
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other option for people who don't like it: leave the country. You wouldn't know it listening to most people complaining but unemployment insurance was not something implemented in 2008, it goes back to the 1930s. That should have been plenty of warning for you to find a place with a tax rate and entitlement system to your liking. Sorry, there aren't a lot of options in the 1st world without taxes and entitlments, but…

I think "like it or leave it" isn't really a useful response, and it takes the discussion into the realm of politics. I'm not going to debate the politics, but since I did "leave it", I thought it might be enlightening to share a bit of my experience. (Leaving the USA had nothing to do with unemployment insurance.) It is not difficult to find first world situations that don't involve burdensome taxes or regulations.…

I don't throw out the 'love it or leave it' for 99% of posts on almost all issues, but when a person equates taxation with theft, it's just a lost cause.

We can and should debate what to do with our tax money, but fundamentally the system always ends up in a state where some people are unhappy with some of the spending. There is no way to reconcile what those on the far right and far left want. We end up somewhere inbetween and that means at the end of the day some people are unsatisfied. Those people still need to pay taxes or the system falls apart.

For those people there are two solutions. Convince people to agree with you and change the policy, or leave the country. (Of course another option is to just whine about it.)

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#73
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other option for people who don't like it: leave the country. You wouldn't know it listening to most people complaining but unemployment insurance was not something implemented in 2008, it goes back to the 1930s. That should have been plenty of warning for you to find a place with a tax rate and entitlement system to your liking. Sorry, there aren't a lot of options in the 1st world without taxes and entitlments, but…

I'm conflicted on the idea of leaving the country as a solution. Its not enough to simply live and work in another country -- you're still liable for taxes. You have to fully expatriate and renounce your citizenship. This is often very difficult and time-consuming to do, and near-impossible if you're not in a skilled line of work.

I'm still a Canadian citizen, but because I don't live in Canada, don't have assets in Canada, and don't earn income in Canada, I don't pay taxes in Canada.

As far as I know, being taxed on worldwide income is just an American thing.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#74
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you fire an employee, why do you pay unemployment? I would understand if you laid them off, but firing? Also, if you are paying for their unemployment, why is unemployment being deducted from their paycheck too?

I don't think people are being careful about the terminology here. Firing could mean terminating employment because someone is no longer needed (what you are calling 'laid off') but it can also mean terminating employment because they broke some rules or laws (i.e. didn't show up for work, harrased co-workers, etc). If you are fired "with cause" (i.e. you did something wrong) you aren't eligible for unemployment. If…

If you quit you are not eligible for unemployment.

Let's be careful about this. It depends on the reason you quit. If you were being harassed and the company did nothing about it, or you had unsafe working conditions, etc, you can still collect.

It's better to say that if you quit for reasons that have nothing to do with the employer, you cannot collect unemployment.

I had a co-worker who quit because the raise he was promised (in writing) at hiring time never materialized. The company had to pay unemployment while he looked for work.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#75
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is getting downmodded, but hes somewhat right. "Chindia" is draining our economy, by "draining our economy", I mean its destroying the people who actually do the work. For every job that is sent overseas, not only does it result in someone, an actual real person, losing their job, but a form of slave labor in a foreign country "hires" the replacement. If I was President, honestly, I would push for a 0.5%…

It seems to me that for most jobs it isn't true that it's being done by slave labor. I know in China, factory jobs pay much more than the average job (2x-3x more). In India, call center workers are considered one of the upper rungs of society - they are thrilled to do it. This can hardly be called slave labor...

2-3x more than 5-10 cents an hour is still slave labor.

Call centers may be well paying jobs in India, but I still view it as kicking an entire society while its down.

In a way, its no different than back before the civil war, white plantation owners would have slaves work inside of the house, ie, a "house negro". The parallels between the two are rather scary.

Its almost like the Civil War was lost in the sense that all we did was export slavery to a country where its legal and accepted.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#76
post #61

Starting a tech company is so cheap that funding should never be the bottleneck. If your idea is too expensive to start with a laptop and cheap hosting, think of another idea.

You're only looking the smallest of expenses. It also depends on how far along you already are with the company. For any non-trivial idea that you're trying to implement from scratch, (especially if you're doing all the work yourself) you're going to want to be able to work on it full time, which means you have living expenses. Depending on where you live, those can be quite high. You might need to pay for training materials as well. There are also software licenses that might be required. I'm sure people with more experience can think of other costs. Hell, if you're just talking about iOS development then you might have to pay for devices, the Apple developer program and a Mac. Not saying these are insurmountable but not as inconsequential as you seem to be implying.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#77
post #66

Is this just PR releases or is the full text of the bill out? After the pre-press on the health care bill versus actually reading the thing, I really want to see the actual text (and the follow-up rule making).

The bill's been sent to congress this morning, if you can't find it on their website yet, you'll be able to soon. (Haven't gone looking myself).

isn't there yet - hope they put it up sometime tonight

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#78

The ignorance displayed in the comments on that article is scary. It's quite obvious a lot of people have never been in the position to actually need this sort of aid before, so it's easy to knock everyone using it as "an illegal" or "lazy." Of course people will abuse this, too, just like they abuse the unemployment insurance we have now. But to me, the net positives that come out of this will outweigh the (probably…

First, who said "an illegal" or "lazy"? Searching the page I only find your comment using those terms. Second, "the system is already being abused so lets allow further abuse" isn't really a great argument. (For the record I'm actually in favor of this I just don't think your tone is necessary and I think it discourages anyone who might disagree)

Yeah sorry if that wasn't clear; I meant on the article's page on the original post, not here.

And I agree, it's a terrible argument for OR against the improvements. The abuse isn't so widespread that it should stop (what I conceive to be) a great way to improve it.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#79
post #61

Starting a tech company is so cheap that funding should never be the bottleneck. If your idea is too expensive to start with a laptop and cheap hosting, think of another idea.

You're only looking the smallest of expenses. It also depends on how far along you already are with the company. For any non-trivial idea that you're trying to implement from scratch, (especially if you're doing all the work yourself) you're going to want to be able to work on it full time, which means you have living expenses. Depending on where you live, those can be quite high. You might need to pay for training m…

If you need living expenses, save up. If you live somewhere too expensive, move. "If your idea is too expensive to start with a laptop and cheap hosting, think of another idea."

Sorry to be somewhat flip, but starting a tech company isn't complex, it's just difficult. These start-up costs are the easy part and if you can't solve them on your own, then a 10K infusion from the government isn't going to help you solve the actually difficult problems down the road.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#80
In essence, the president’s plan will create a guaranteed source of startup capital...

Is that necessarily a good thing? I was under the impression the whole "trial-by-fire" of a business plan looking for funding was a valuable testing grounds for the business-to-be.

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