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More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

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Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#101

Post by ojilles »

newsclues wrote: post #73
peregren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine may have kept you out of ICU. It doesn't seem logical to change to a "let the chips fall where they may" based on this experience.

It doesn’t make sense that individuals can do everything to be safe and the the hospital of all places is where they get sick. Dwell deeply on that. The hospital is incapable of keeping people safe from Covid. All the masks, social distancing and testing, and you catch Covid at the hospital.

It's not a new phenomena [1]. I do not think "hospitals are incapable of keeping people safe from Covid" is the best expression. I think "encountering any humans bears increased risk in Covid times", regardless if those humans work in a hospital (although, arguably lower risk) versus a shoe store.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5414085/

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#102

Post by throwawayboise »

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #30
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #17

I'm fully vax'd and boosted. I'll probably continue to get boosted in the future. All that said? I feel like the government did a really bad job communicating who needs the booster and when. First, they gave vague recommendations to immunocompromised folks. They said everyone else probably didn't need it. Then they said well, ok for older folks. Then this new omni variant comes out and they're badgering everyone to g…

This is effectively a disconnect between science and public policy. Science teaches us to keep our minds open to new data, so we can make new conclusions as we go. People just seem to get pissed when public policy changes in light of new data, lending to the narrative that scientists don't know what they're talking about.

I don't object to policy changes in light of new data, but do object to policy made based on preliminary data, knowing full well that we don't understand everything yet, and then changing every few months or even more often, and just shouting "SCIENCE!" if anyone questions any of it.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#103

Post by pxue »

Ahh. it begins.

- US midterm is coming up in november.

- One of Biden's major election point was combating Covid and curbing infections.

- This has largely been a catastrophic failure. More Americans have died from Covid under Biden than under Trump (not that it matters)

So, the left media will now begin a year long campaign down playing domestic covid severity, and make sure that Covid will NOT be a major talking point for the 2022 elections.

Edit: republican will 100% pull a "i-told-you-so" move in their campaign trails. I'm Canadian and our government (even conservative learning province/state government) is still using the partial lockdown as a mean to curb infection, it's very very obviously NOT working.

What will be really interesting is just how the medical community is so detached from the political community. I understand you shouldn't bring politics into science, but you also can't blind yourself and optimize for only one metric.. everything is a trade-off.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#104

Post by vikingerik »

oauea wrote: post #6
torstenvl wrote: post #2

I think it boils down to two questions: - What is the average level of risk to someone taking reasonable personal precautions? - What level of state-sponsored violence is justifiable to further reduce that risk? Governments and societies have been acting out-of-control and it needs to stop. If people don't want to take personal precautions, they should be at liberty to assume the additional risk.

What violence?

Australia is forcibly imprisoning people in quarantine facilities.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#105

Post by detaro »

toast0 wrote: post #69
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #17

I'm fully vax'd and boosted. I'll probably continue to get boosted in the future. All that said? I feel like the government did a really bad job communicating who needs the booster and when. First, they gave vague recommendations to immunocompromised folks. They said everyone else probably didn't need it. Then they said well, ok for older folks. Then this new omni variant comes out and they're badgering everyone to g…

> There would have been so much less confusion if they were consistent with their communication from the start. While that's true, I don't think it's reasonable unless, like a sibling suggested, the disease would be consistent from the start. What would be nice is if they contemplated and acknowledged that the recommendations would be changing. Rather than saying 'others don't need a booster', they should be saying '…

> What would be nice is if they contemplated and acknowledged that the recommendations would be changing.

But they do. E.g. go through https://web.archive.org/web/20210715000000*/https://www.cdc...., it's always wrapped in "We are monitoring the situation. High-risk populations first. Recommendations will be adjusted as needed." disclaimers. But we have a strong tendency to only remember the short head-line version, even if we looked at the full statement at the time. And if you go by headlines or equivalent short news, it's likely you haven't seen the disclaimer, but good luck getting the details into headlines. It's a pattern that repeats over and over in discussions of this.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#106

Post by khazhoux »

some_furry wrote: post #38
throwawayboise wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people were in the "willing to take that risk" from the beginning, and were relentlessly demonized. Now it's OK though if everyone feels that way.

Now it's OK if they're sufficiently vaccinated* Vaccines weren't widely available back then

What's the * ?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#107

Post by throwaway0a5e »

ceejayoz wrote: post #39
throwawayboise wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people were in the "willing to take that risk" from the beginning, and were relentlessly demonized. Now it's OK though if everyone feels that way.

Being willing to take on the risk yourself and being willing to inflict it on others aren't the same thing. If you could drive drunk without risking other people, it'd be more societally acceptable. Similarly, now that vaccination is widely available for at-risk groups, it's a bit more acceptable to take actions that spread the virus that puts those folks at risk.

> Similarly, now that vaccination is widely available for at-risk groups...

It was widely available a year ago. The most at risk groups were the first and most comprehensively vaccinated. What gives? If the conditions for re-opening were met a year ago why were we wearing masks outdoors and whatnot this whole time? Comments like these seem like little more than mental gymnastics to justify having held an opinion that didn't age well w.r.t. the various degrees of covid measures we've endured.

Edit: Fine then, call it 6mo. Regardless, I'd be very interested to see someone provide in a "better than just saving face" quality defense of why businesses have been at reduced capacity, government services have been limited in their accessibility, etc, etc. beyond the point at which the vulnerable were vaccinated and why we're continuing to have this debate. I know information was less great then but we have it now. How do people oppose re-opening wholesale-ish. I foresee nursing homes keeping some precautions but the DMV, using covid as an excuse for why I can't register a car at a certain service location, being masked at outdoor venues, come on.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#108

Post by jewayne »

collias wrote: post #37
denimnerd42 wrote: post #12

i think i'm done with current level vaccines. I've had 3 mrna. The second and third each took me out for 2 days. I don't see any reason for more unless a better one comes out. I do think 3 are important though.

Apparently, booster efficacy wanes after about 10 weeks[1]. If you think the 3rd shot is important, why not the 4th, 5th, ad infinitum? Genuinely curious, not trying to be difficult. [1]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

My favorite part is where the referenced document doesn't say that. It literally shows that a third shot of Pfizer-Biontech is still 90+% effective against the Delta variant after 10+ weeks. And close to 50% against Omicron after 10+ weeks. The only significance of 10 weeks is that was where their data ended, because boosters haven't been generally available that long.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#109

Post by cableshaft »

jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #43
peregren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine may have kept you out of ICU. It doesn't seem logical to change to a "let the chips fall where they may" based on this experience.

I am not sure if your assertion is true. I am completely unvaccinated and at times also ran a heart rate above 120 (involuntarily) and a fever above 102. However the difference for me was that I was at home and all I needed to do was take my inhaler if I felt short of breath and take advil quite religiously for the fever. So I don't feel there is any difference between their symptoms and mine, and I am an asthmatic a…

Different people have different reactions to Covid. That's true of both unvaccinated and vaccinated. But the data has been pretty clear that vaccinated has resulted in a lot less hospitalizations and death for those that take it.

I'm glad you made it through okay, but statistically your risk was higher by being unvaccinated when you caught it.

Also if I was short of breath, a heart rate above 120 randomly, and had a fever of 102 (at the same tmie) during this pandemic, as an overweight asthmatic myself, I wouldn't have risked staying home and would have headed straight to the emergency room. Especially if I checked my Oximeter and it was in the lower 90s.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#110

Post by mizzack »

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #30
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #17

I'm fully vax'd and boosted. I'll probably continue to get boosted in the future. All that said? I feel like the government did a really bad job communicating who needs the booster and when. First, they gave vague recommendations to immunocompromised folks. They said everyone else probably didn't need it. Then they said well, ok for older folks. Then this new omni variant comes out and they're badgering everyone to g…

This is effectively a disconnect between science and public policy. Science teaches us to keep our minds open to new data, so we can make new conclusions as we go. People just seem to get pissed when public policy changes in light of new data, lending to the narrative that scientists don't know what they're talking about.

People are getting pissed that public policy and messaging is changing WITHOUT new data.

In the past week:

- The CDC director acknowledged and downplayed the severity of omicron by stating the vast majority of hospitalized patients have multiple comorbidities. This has been true since the start of the pandemic, but is only being addressed now.

- CDC and several states are making the distinction between "hospitalized from" and "hospitalized with" COVID. This has also been a point of contention for the past 2 years. For some reason we're changing that now. Your guess is as good as mine, but I'd bet it has to do with the omicron spike making govt. middle manager KPI graphs look bad.

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