Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

road.cc

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 223 posts

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#61

Post by alamortsubite »

the_french wrote: post #13
jhoelzel wrote: post #6

Here in Berlin you can easily get with the bike through the entire city. If you survive that is a different topic, but you could if you wanted! IMHO the future lies somewhere between bikes, elon musk and the city tram. What we actually need is a vehicle that fullfills all criteria in some form. For instance: getting out of your apartment and onto one of those scooters to the next subway station where you either conne…

> But we know how that goes and nobody actually will care about the scooter enough to return or take care of it. Looking at countries like the Netherlands this is not true. Train stations have rentable bikes which are always available in sufficient quantities. > So what do we do? Uber-Tesla-Subway pods. I call it by phone, it shows up to my house, either transfers me or lets me dock with the subway and then brings me…

> Looking at countries like the Netherlands this is not true. Train stations have rentable bikes

Only for residents of NL, I believe (which in no way invalidates your point and I agree with everything you wrote).

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#62

Post by pmontra »

bandzest wrote: post #35
kavaruka wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milan has no problem with trash I also don’t think that this “benaltrismo” is useful :)

Looking out of the window in Cinisello where I am right now, I'd be inclined to disagree with you. Far far different to Sweden, where I normally live.

It's not as bad as in other places but there should be less trash and dog shit around. About dogs, owners started to pick up their poo and dispose of it years ago so it's not as bad as it used to be. However everything is relative. I was in Japan, maybe Tokyo, with a friend of mine from Switzerland (regarded by Italians as a very clean place) and he looked around and told me with a sad face "It looks cleaner than home."

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#63

Post by 999900000999 »

blamazon wrote: post #9

If you live in a region where bike infrastructure is underfunded, and car infrastructure is overfunded, it’s probable that’s because cycling is viewed as a recreational activity in your area and thus undeserving of tax dollars compared to ‘essential’ car travel. If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! Find out who controls the infrastructure spending in your area and call/email them.

I'm fairly anti-car myself, But factor in cycling is not practical transportation for most people. It targets a certain demographic, people who have the physical ability to actually cycle. What about those who cannot, what about disabled people? Even if you are fit, anything more that 10 miles a day is difficult.

I'm a massive fan of public transit, however, as an American this means I can only live in a handful of cities, but it's worth it .

When I lived in LA I was miserable, driving to work every single day, driving in a city is not enjoyable. So I moved, but it's impractical for someone like me to ride the bike to work. My office doesn't offer gyms, and I can't bike in sweating.

As for safety, riding the Metro can't be beat. The worst of both worlds is our current system where bikes compete with cars for a limited set of roads.

If I could build my own city from scratch, I would ban all cars completely. Design something like a 5 mile circle, and build upward. 24/7 slow metro lines allow for commutes within the city. Then have side walks and bike paths covering other commutes. Have every pathway so well lit, 3am is as safe as 3pm.

Then have garages on the city outskirts if you need to own a car to commute out of town.

I can imagine this already existing in Europe. Amsterdam felt very close.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#64

Post by s0rce »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #43
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #5

Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf... : the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is rea…

In Holland they learned the hard way that you have to physically cordon off half of every road for bicycles. But you have to remember that just putting some paint on the pavement is a lot cheaper so that's what the government tries first. The reason why roads were taken back by Dutch cyclists and pedestrians is that they never stopped doing it. At some dark moment in the 1970s the number of children run over by cars…

Americans seem really good at ignoring cyclists being run over. Children don't seem to walk/cycle and rely on being driven around by their parents here so they don't die as much (good, obviously people know its not safe) but doesn't promote infrastructure investment for alternative transit (bad).

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#65

Post by pmontra »

eCa wrote: post #41
pmontra wrote: post #18

If any of you have been to Milan, the inner circle of the image [1] is more or less the city boundary. That path could be anything between 70 to 100 km according to how they'll design it. I had no problems cycling 100+ km around the city during the second quasi-lockdown of one winter ago. The grey area is what's called "città metropolitana" now, basically the old province of Milan including more than 100 of other cit…

I would have thought that the inner circle would be the Via Santa Sofia-Via Senato circle road. I’ve never been to the city-proper, only the train station, but it seems strange that any of the missing 20% would be in the city center.

I found this PDF from the City council [1]

There is an example about "Line 6" at page 14. It starts almost at the eastern city border.

[1] https://www.cittametropolitana.mi.it/export/sites/default/po...

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#66

Post by zip1234 »

lobochrome wrote: post #20
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #5

Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf... : the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is rea…

I'm a road biker and would love fully separated bikeways wherever possible. The scheme in Milano sounds exciting and full of the right spirit. That being said, painted lines, in reality, do positively affect safety, both perceived (at least by me) and in accident statistics. Rethinking our cities towards multi-modal transportation will take time. I believe maximalist positions ("only physically separated bike lanes a…

In regards to painted lines--they mostly do not pass the 'would you let your kids ride on them?' test. Drivers treat them as additional car lanes or a place to drift off into while texting.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#67

Post by Eric_WVGG »

999900000999 wrote: post #63
blamazon wrote: post #9

If you live in a region where bike infrastructure is underfunded, and car infrastructure is overfunded, it’s probable that’s because cycling is viewed as a recreational activity in your area and thus undeserving of tax dollars compared to ‘essential’ car travel. If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! Find out who controls the infrastructure spending in your area and call/email them.

I'm fairly anti-car myself, But factor in cycling is not practical transportation for most people. It targets a certain demographic, people who have the physical ability to actually cycle. What about those who cannot, what about disabled people? Even if you are fit, anything more that 10 miles a day is difficult. I'm a massive fan of public transit, however, as an American this means I can only live in a handful of c…

> cycling is not practical transportation for most people. It targets a certain demographic, people who have the physical ability to actually cycle.

That's… most people.

Like I get it, we have an obesity epidemic, but fat people can ride bicycles. It's not unusual. And a lot of them start shedding pounds fast once you get them out of the automated wheeled easy-chairs we call "cars."

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#68

Post by multiplegeorges »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #43
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #5

Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf... : the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is rea…

In Holland they learned the hard way that you have to physically cordon off half of every road for bicycles. But you have to remember that just putting some paint on the pavement is a lot cheaper so that's what the government tries first. The reason why roads were taken back by Dutch cyclists and pedestrians is that they never stopped doing it. At some dark moment in the 1970s the number of children run over by cars…

> It was a battle won by blood.

This is the current battle in Toronto, Canada.

Last year, there were more people killed by cars than gun violence, but you wouldn't know it by the media coverage.

The city, largely due to strong local advocacy, has started to respond with physically separated lanes, but we're talking double digit KM/year, if we're lucky, when we need 100s of KM to link the city together like this Milan proposal.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#69

Post by kubb »

lbriner wrote: post #54

There is an issue that needs consideration, if you compare to Japan which has enormous cycle usage. Although it is good for air pollution, you end up seeing whole seas of cycles everywhere which is not nice in terms of the aesthetic nvironment. Go to a normal suburban train station and there might be 500+ bikes all in a massive area. Better than a large car park but we don't get many large station car parks in the UK…

In an area where you store 1 car, you could instead store 20 bicycles (more with better storage infrastructure). If 20% of people switch from driving to biking, you can save 19% of the storage space, which will be reclaimed by the city. The decluttering of the public spaces has a positive aesthetic effect on the urban environment, which is clearly visible in Dutch cities.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#70

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

s0rce wrote: post #64
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Holland they learned the hard way that you have to physically cordon off half of every road for bicycles. But you have to remember that just putting some paint on the pavement is a lot cheaper so that's what the government tries first. The reason why roads were taken back by Dutch cyclists and pedestrians is that they never stopped doing it. At some dark moment in the 1970s the number of children run over by cars…

Americans seem really good at ignoring cyclists being run over. Children don't seem to walk/cycle and rely on being driven around by their parents here so they don't die as much (good, obviously people know its not safe) but doesn't promote infrastructure investment for alternative transit (bad).

Reminds me of this. https://twitter.com/darren_cullen/status/1422550369985605637
Post reply on HN