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New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

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Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#111

Post by yunohn »

nicoburns wrote: post #108
yunohn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to live in 2022 and argue that academia isn’t influenced by capitalistic interests. This is so backwards of a viewpoint that I don’t have the time to argue further.

"influenced" is a much weaker claim than "controlled". Yes, there's a commercial influence, but does that prevent studies that are against those commercial interests from being conducted or those commercial studies from being criticised: no it doesn't.

I did not intend to weaken my claim - I actually do believe that most of research is controlled by commercial interests in one way or another.

Governments and corporations alike allocate capital towards research that they think benefits the populace or shareholders. This is measured with a dollar value, like most things in life (thank you last stage capitalism).

While the influence on certain topics might be lesser, it is definitely stronger for other topics. The vaccines are a good example of the latter, since it’s a highly profitable venture with a TAM of the entire global population. You can see this in broad daylight where Pfizer wanted to make their data public only after 75 years (1). Surely good science doesn’t need secrecy?

If this doesn’t invoke skepticism into how most research is influenced similarly, I’m not sure what to say.

(1) https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/paramount-importanc...

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#112

Post by perlgeek »

parkingrift wrote: post #105
feistypharit wrote: post #46

Don’t forget the placebo effect works both ways. All the antivax people that got the vaccine even though they may not have wanted to, are going attribute everything weird that then happens to the vaccine. This is all going to take years to sort out and figure out what’s real and what’s not. And we’ll never know 100%. The bigger issue is whether we’ll be able to trust our present or future leaders to let science do it…

> This is all going to take years to sort out and figure out what’s real and what’s not. This is usually sorted out before mass vaccination. We rolled out completely novel technologies and skipped the medium and long term safety steps. If these negative outcomes turn out to be true, there will be no going back from this. The future of mRNA will be circling the drain, and vaccination in general may go down with it. Di…

> If these negative outcomes turn out to be true, there will be no going back from this.

I really hope that we can have a sensible discussion about safety and relative risks with 90% of the population.

(Naive, I know...)

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#113

Post by rjsw »

cromwellian wrote: post #104
rjsw wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the people affected would have got the same autoimmune reaction from both vaccination and infection. For me, the post-viral symptoms have been a lot worse than the virus itself.

I developed gout in my mid 20s after a viral infection. My uric acid is always in the normal range and I get stereotypical gout symptoms including Tophi now that I’m 50. I can usually predict a gout attack when I get a cold, I have a feeling my immune system gets ramped up and my feet are collateral damage. So I guess my point is, what percentage of the population is like my case and will eventually get an autoimmune…

I have had autoimmune reactions from other viral infections too.

I don't think I got any worse after COVID-19 vaccination so I don't regret having it done if it helps the overall public health situation.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#114

Post by nicoburns »

yunohn wrote: post #111
nicoburns wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"influenced" is a much weaker claim than "controlled". Yes, there's a commercial influence, but does that prevent studies that are against those commercial interests from being conducted or those commercial studies from being criticised: no it doesn't.

I did not intend to weaken my claim - I actually do believe that most of research is controlled by commercial interests in one way or another. Governments and corporations alike allocate capital towards research that they think benefits the populace or shareholders. This is measured with a dollar value, like most things in life (thank you last stage capitalism). While the influence on certain topics might be lesser,…

> You can see this in broad daylight where Pfizer wanted to make their data public only after 75 years (1). Surely good science doesn’t need secrecy?

Indeed it doesn't, and it seems that was upheld by the courts which made sure that there wasn't such secrecy. To me this is evidence that while they are powerful forces with ulterior motives, there are also powerful forces fighting for the common good. And that a good proportion of the time they are successful.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#115

Post by PickledHotdog »

notabotyet wrote: post #101
alexmcc81 wrote: post #14

I'm in this boat. I'm worried I now have a life long disability before 35. I'm waiting for an appointment with a Rheumatology consultant and I have been told by my doctor they have been inundated with people with post COVID vaccine side effects. Edit: I would like to hear other people's experiences if they are willing to post them.

---- deleted sorry I don't want to end up on a list ----

You know, you're also living through a global pandemic - that's a lot of mental weight to deal with whether you're conscious of it or not. The virus is an invisible, borderless threat to your existence. That's a lot of "24/7 background" stress to exist in with no relief, which makes it difficult to handle other stresses that life throws up.

I wonder if perhaps it's the global situation of the last 2 years that's causing issues rather than the vaccine

It's been a real struggle for lots of people, mental health wise, and given the US health system, I expect it's difficult to get support.

Anyway, I hope things improve whether it's a "vaccine injury" or something else

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#116

Post by yunohn »

nicoburns wrote: post #114
yunohn wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not intend to weaken my claim - I actually do believe that most of research is controlled by commercial interests in one way or another. Governments and corporations alike allocate capital towards research that they think benefits the populace or shareholders. This is measured with a dollar value, like most things in life (thank you last stage capitalism). While the influence on certain topics might be lesser,…

> You can see this in broad daylight where Pfizer wanted to make their data public only after 75 years (1). Surely good science doesn’t need secrecy? Indeed it doesn't, and it seems that was upheld by the courts which made sure that there wasn't such secrecy. To me this is evidence that while they are powerful forces with ulterior motives, there are also powerful forces fighting for the common good. And that a good p…

I would still beg to differ, but I can see that you’re infinitely more positive than I am.

Going to court to release such important data, should be a last resort. The elites and rulers should be happy to enforce this upfront. This only shows that there’s something to hide, and as we’ve seen before - they could easily fake/hide/destroy the evidence by the time they end up releasing it. Do note that it hasn’t been released yet.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#117

Post by giantg2 »

cromwellian wrote: post #100
giantg2 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you reported to VAERS. People need to report potential events so that the data is present to do statistical analysis on. It's a shame how terrible the data currently is with all the under reporting.

VAERS is garbage in, garbage out. There is no curation since it is self reported, you may as well mine Reddit comments or Twitter to get the same data.

Yep, and yet it's the data the government uses for identifying issues...

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#118

Post by parkingrift »

perlgeek wrote: post #112
parkingrift wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is all going to take years to sort out and figure out what’s real and what’s not. This is usually sorted out before mass vaccination. We rolled out completely novel technologies and skipped the medium and long term safety steps. If these negative outcomes turn out to be true, there will be no going back from this. The future of mRNA will be circling the drain, and vaccination in general may go down with it. Di…

> If these negative outcomes turn out to be true, there will be no going back from this. I really hope that we can have a sensible discussion about safety and relative risks with 90% of the population. (Naive, I know...)

That seems incredibly unlikely. People who have been hesitant to get the vaccine have been mocked and ridiculed for months. I honestly can’t even imagine what will happen if it turns out that they were right to be hesitant.

There are no caveats to all the statements that the vaccines are safe and effective.

Speaking personally, they’ll need to do an amazing job quantifying the risks and performing further long-term studies before I would consider an additional booster shot.

Re: New‐onset autoimmune phenomena post‐Covid‐19 vaccination

#120

Post by dev360 »

mauvehaus wrote: post #73
core-utility wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is awful to hear. I unfortunately think this entire debacle will leave a lasting distrust of our medical providers and institutions. Vaccine hesitant are already distrustful, and I believe in the coming months/year as more stand up to the censorship of these real issues, a growing number of vaccinated will feel mislead and lied to (whether justified or not). The only recovery path I can see is the return of a st…

A good first step might be making sure the population is educated sufficiently to identify and weigh the risks between a 1 in 1,000,000 side effect, the disease the vaccine protects against, and the pure bullshit peddled by fear mongers. Right now, we have people in the US who still believe that Covid is no worse than a bad case of the flu. All the evidence (at least for the pre Omicron variants) suggests that the re…

> All the evidence (at least for the pre Omicron variants) suggests that the reality, as viewed by death rate, is orders of magnitude more bleak.

Dr. Rochelle Walensky, Director of CDC was actually in an interview recently where she said 75% of Covid deaths occurred in people with 4 co-morbidities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa7N-iNkaUE

This statement begs the question of what percentile of deaths occurred with no co-morbidities at all. In my mind at least, I don't know enough about the death rate to inform if its bleak or not judging as a healthy 41 year old without complicating medical factors.

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