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I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

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Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#211
post #197

The T430 was the machine that hooked me on to ThinkPads almost 20 years ago. Having tried many newer models since then, including the X1 Extreme I use for work nowadays, I agree that they just don't make them as they used to. Ever since the Lenovo acquisition in particular, quality has gone down substantially, to the point where they don't feel special at all, and are on par with other Chinese mass produced brands. F…

> you'd think that coil whine wouldn't be an issue, and that TrackPoint drift would be fixed after all these years.

To be fair, trackpoint drift (atleast as I understand it) is a byproduct of the technology, ie the trackpoint driver constantly recalibrating itself.

I agree with you that the quality has gone down drastically though - I miss my X220t still after upgrading to a T480 last year. I've had my keyboard replaced twice under warranty and the third one is exhibiting the same issues now that the other two did (backspace key keeps popping out).

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#212
I upgraded my 2008 HP with an SSD and max amount of memory. That thing was ahead of its time - a Macbook-style touch strip where you can control volume and other things (albeit much less fancy), and fingerprint login.

It's a beautiful machine, but unfortunately your biggest bottleneck is the CPU. The modern Internet is ridiculously inefficient, and the laptop struggles to do even casual browsing. And video service streaming also maxes the poor guy out.

Overall, it was a satisfying experience to resurrect it. I call it Lazarus.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#213
post #198
post #192

Laptops in the early 2010s kind of reached a level of being adequate enough for most use-cases that it's hard to really justify an upgrade. I feel, as I write this on my late 2013 MacBook Pro, that it's powerful enough for most normal activities, read, browse, video calls, work on not too large data sets, etc. Anything that needs to run longer than I keep the laptop open can run on a different device, many programs a…

To me VDI is the way to go. I want my development machine to be in the cloud and always running. I want a lightweight notebook that only takes into consideration screen, keyboard and battery that I can connect to my virtual desktop from anywhere. I want a dedicated desk at home with a $40 PCoIP thin client purchased used on EBay hooked up to my multiple monitors that connects to the same virtual desktop. With this yo…

How do you deal with the noticeable latency? It's pretty annoying even on LAN with RDP. I imagine it'll be worse on the cloud.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#214
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also using an X220. I bought an X1 as a potential replacement but the trackpoint is unusable and the keyboard is a big step down. The X220 battery only lasts about 15 minutes though, so I need to keep it plugged in. I'd like to find a replacement battery but am not enthusiastic about prying the housing apart to install new cells or buying a knockoff from a faraway land which might start a fire.

The easiest way to tell the difference between a real and fake is by the white "recycle" sticker https://preview.redd.it/83f0fqegasa11.jpg?width=1263&format=... fake batteries have a poorly printed, "fat" looking battery on the recycle sticker and the real ones have a slender properly printed one. For context in the image the bottom one is fake.

Thanks, but the problem is that either it has the original cells inside and those will have the same issues as my current ones or it has new (possibly unmatched?) cells of unknown provenance.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#215
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unreasonable.

My intuition is that hardware based startup failure rates are significantly higher, still.

Right! Yeah, I didn't want to get into a debate about the actual product and product space ...

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#216

For anyone who wants the most powerful laptop from this generation, T530/W530 can be equipped with i7-3940XM and has a good wide gamut FHD display. igpu models are recommended for battery life and linux. They are also supported well by coreboot, and you'll be able to run just about any OS on them. A slightly newer T440p is also a decent choice.

Don't forget that they're the last gen compatible with the classic keyboard.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#217
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try one out before you start with that conclusion

What conclusion, I'm not asserting they are going to fail. Startup failure rates are close to 90%, being concerned that this startup might also fail isn't unreasonable.

Let’s not skim the surface.

The Framework seems to be a modern Thinkpad with a similar USP of how they were built in 2012 before manufacturers tried to introduce and convince consumers of disposable laptops for the past 10 years.

The reason I suggested handling one is the build quality for a first gen device is hard to believe until you hold one and use it for a few days or weeks. The framework is well beyond the quality of first gen devices and feels like the smart people at Apple, Lenovo, etc got together to build a laptop and delivered.

Let’s look at it from where you’re presenting it:

Customers exist in multiple segments: Pioneers, Early Adopters, Early Conservatives, Late Conservatives and Laggards.. distributed on a bell curve.

It’s true startups largely fail because most fail to find a product people want, or deliver on finding a market and distribution for it. They seem to have resonated.

Successful startups often need to appeal to a large enough Pioneer and Early Adopter market to sustain crossing that little chasm to sustainability. Seems like a premium priced product is selling out in batches and getting decent reviews.

Laptops are not a small market. Likely enough pioneers and early adopters exist, unlike the conservatives and laggards that delay adopting technology until validated by others. Someone can run Windows or Linux.

Maybe you’re not an early adopter or pioneer.. but many entrepreneurs and creators could be. Innovators usually exist in a mindset of possibility leveraged with unfair advantages and Framework seems to have a few.

While I don’t work for Framework, I’ve sadly owned 10-15 laptops. With each new laptop I also buy the death of that device. The framework has as many if not more replaceable components from third parties.

On being reasonable, I think it’s fair to say that not everything is for everyone. You or I are not everyone or everyone’s needs.

All it has to do is last 2-3 years without much ado, which it probably will, while being produced in small batches that are hopefully profitable.

I bought and returned my framework and outlined why in another comment, mostly I learned I didn’t have the time to tinker, but I don’t think there’s an option like it on the market.

My guess? Framework will be around, and might even build up like Razer, System76, etc and be acquired by a large manufacturer.

Edit: Forgot to add the initial link between a 2012 Thinkpad and Framework.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#218
post #198
post #192

Laptops in the early 2010s kind of reached a level of being adequate enough for most use-cases that it's hard to really justify an upgrade. I feel, as I write this on my late 2013 MacBook Pro, that it's powerful enough for most normal activities, read, browse, video calls, work on not too large data sets, etc. Anything that needs to run longer than I keep the laptop open can run on a different device, many programs a…

To me VDI is the way to go. I want my development machine to be in the cloud and always running. I want a lightweight notebook that only takes into consideration screen, keyboard and battery that I can connect to my virtual desktop from anywhere. I want a dedicated desk at home with a $40 PCoIP thin client purchased used on EBay hooked up to my multiple monitors that connects to the same virtual desktop. With this yo…

I prefer having a laptop that's powerful enough on its own, this gives me a lot of freedom when the internet is bad. I also like to have a desktop with a nice screen and a bit more power that I can use to run things that take a bit longer.

Everything more serious happens in the cloud, yes, but it's good to know that I can achieve reasonable results, browse, watch videos and send e-mails.

Even though I'm kind of excited for a new M1 Macbook with way more battery and faster apps, I wouldn't spend money on it until I absolutely have to.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upgrades aren’t even substantial. The CPU, RAM, and fan are all original parts. You could’ve ordered this exact configuration from Lenovo. The only deviation from stock is the AC WiFi upgrade. I daily drive a T530, it was max spec already so I haven’t changed anything. It has more than enough power to do software dev.

I see you also follow my rule: When buying a laptop, always buy top spec. My laptop is an OG X1 Carbon i7/8/256. I can't upgrade it easily, but I'm actually happy with it for my purposes. My main driver is a Ryzen desktop though, that's a proper beast.

I have that exact laptop, abd my only gripe is battery life. How's that holding up for you?

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course you fixed your arch install in a matter of an hour, you're a Haskell developer.

I’m not a Haskell developer and Arch is my goto Linux precisely because it’s on the of easiest distros to fix when things go wrong. YMMV but the snide remark is definitely unjustified.

That's been my experience with Arch as well. I've only seen a handful of actual breakages in my time (using consistently since 2016), and there's _always_ a good discussion with a manual fix available within a few hours, or a few days if you want to stick to official update channels.

Plus KDE Plasma has become such a joy to use! I repurposed my T530 as a media center with a wireless keyboard and it's been a fantastic experience

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