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Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

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Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#171

Post by guerrilla »

symlinkk wrote: post #85
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #65

It's crazy how our brains and bodies are just a cocktail of hormones and neurotransmitters. Change that mix, and it can change the very nature of who we think we are. Things that you might associate with your very identity, like optimism/pessimism, ability to focus, moral judgment, how collaborative or generous you are, aggressiveness, all can be influenced by hormones or neurotransmitters.

Yes it brings up uncomfortable questions about free will. Like “why did he murder that guy? did he choose to do it or did the chemicals in his brain force him to?”

This is why we should think in terms of problem solving rather than "responsibility" in the traditional sense and punishment. The person is "responsible" in the sense that it was their body (i.e. them) that did the crime but that doesn't actually tell us anything. If the point is to prevent further such crimes then the conditions that caused it have to be prevented in some way or another. That's the original problem that retribution (and it's later reforms) was solving.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#172

Post by guerrilla »

cblconfederate wrote: post #138
symlinkk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it brings up uncomfortable questions about free will. Like “why did he murder that guy? did he choose to do it or did the chemicals in his brain force him to?”

Until we have effective behavior-altering treatments that 'correct' people we have to insist on personal responsibility so that they can be put in prison.

We need to not only correct people but environments. The people themselves only contain half the conditions that lead to their behavior, their environments contain the other half.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#173

Post by lazide »

wyre wrote: post #152
twofornone wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He was a hypnotherapist who claimed that in almost all cases they were able to use hypnosis to get information about what happened even if the conscious person was completely unable to recall any details. There's no guarantee that the information they received was true. I imagine hypnosis is in the same category as lie detectors with respect to its...interpretability.

Even if hypnotherapy only brings out incorrect tales if there is improvement in the patients wellness I would view that as a valid treatment, but obviously there are a lot of metrics that are impractical to measure to make valid scientific statements about it. I'm not a hypnotherapist, not do I visit one.

Except for the folks accused of doing things in said made up memories - like all the poor bastards railroaded in the 90’s as part of the crazy satanic panic Bs.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#174

Post by sneak »

skissane wrote: post #141
sneak wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morals are about as far from instinct as one can get. They're also entirely subjective, fwiw.

Morals are (at least in part) based on generalising instinct. Most people would be instinctively repelled and outraged if they saw an adult torturing a child – morality is not that instinctive feeling itself, but when we reflect upon that feeling intellectually, especially when in doing so we universalise it, moving from "I am repelled and outraged by this, so I won't do it and do I what I can to stop others from doi…

> Most people would be instinctively repelled and outraged if they saw an adult torturing a child

This, regardless of how you feel about the subject matter, is a factually false statement. That's not how instincts work, or what they are. Additionally, even without that error, the statement holds false.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#175

Post by xaleb »

selectodude wrote: post #50
loceng wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you try or were offered anything else before trying medications?

Yes, >1yr of talk therapy.

Since calling it "talk therapy" might be off-putting to some people, here's my perspective. I've been participating in cognitive-behavioural therapy sessions for 4 months now, and the results have been genuinely astounding - I'm speaking as someone that would previously dismiss such things as nonsense. I've had trouble with sleep for the past 2 years, as in: I can't really recall a week where I slept well, without waking up. I had panic attacks. I had (anxiety-like) difficulties when talking with others that would qualify as a disability. I've had incredible trouble with stress. By now, all of that is nearly gone, just thanks to talking about my problems and figuring out the emotional patterns that are behind them.

Side comment: doing a PhD in a foreign country is no joke. First rule of doing a PhD is: don't do a PhD.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#176

Post by Jerrrry »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #162
loves_mangoes wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ketamine (as its S-isomer) is approved by the FDA for treatment-resistant depression. Note that while the evidence for Ketamine's antidepressant effect is actually strong, that does not mean you should get into the habit of snorting a gram of special K a day. Ketamine abuse is known to cause serious, practical damage to the GI tract, the urinary system, the liver, and the brain.

Thank you for this information. My question was - how does it help? What does it do and why is that helpful?

If I get my mail today, I will let you know.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#177

Post by mxmilkiib »

plutonorm wrote: post #17
dave_sullivan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you ever tried a DSRI but it could be your serotonin levels are fine but your dopamine levels are out of whack. SSRIs are just one class of drug. Speaking from a history of anxiety and depression, the wrong drugs were not helpful, but the right drugs opened up a whole new version of self. In my case, that was buproprion.

Not available in the UK because reasons.

Not available directly from a GP, but if one gets referred to a clinical psychiatrist they can permit a prescription.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#178

Post by objektif »

tsol wrote: post #95
o10449366 wrote: post #3

(Just my personal, anecdotal experience - I have strong family history of depression and anxiety on both sides of my family and it's something that's afflicted me since I was a teenager.) I will be extremely hesitant to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications ever again after my last experience with them. For me, the medications helped by tempering all of my feelings - I no longer felt sad or anxious, inste…

My experience was the opposite. In fact, after taking medication to fix it I later stopped because of this naturalistic fallacy. I knew it was bunting some of my emotions and I figured whatever the drugs are doing I can do with lifestyle changes. 10 years later, a daily habit of exercise and cold showers, a variety of daily natural supplements like turmeric and magnesium, and a career later.. I was no different. I'd…

Which one did you take?

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#179

Post by loceng »

jnovek wrote: post #115
loceng wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever researched or tried MDMA? It's "single use" vs. daily and habit/dependency forming. MAPS.org did clinical trials, MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for veterans with treatment resistant PTSD, to great success.

Psychedelics seem very promising for the treatment of PTSD at some point down the line, but it’s not even close to studied enough. E.g. a recent promising study in Nature was 90 participants. Taking street MDMA is not the same as being administered MDMA in a clinical setting as an aid to talk therapy. I am enthusiastic about the advancement of research in this area and frustrated that it was delayed for so long due t…

Are you familiar with the Maps.org study and results? 100 participants with 17.5 years average of treatment resistant PTSD. The placebo at the end of 1 year: 80% had no improvement, 20% some [expected], the group who did just 2-3 sessions with therapeutic dose of MDMA (100-120mg) at the end of 1 year: 80% no longer qualified for PTSD diagnostic, 20% had some or no improvement; MAPS released/published their 69 page guide for therapists - the two main important components being varied music selection (with more specific definition/explanation given), and an empathetic listener - someone present who will actually fully listen and respond whole-heartedly if the client needs to share something.

Your final sentence also rings true for any remedy including SSRIs which many people have been harmed by, likewise your pointing out to this research not advancing due to political reasons - including system and regulatory capture - can be applied to existing treatments that were approved but perhaps should not have been; the conspiracy hypothesis that's becoming mainstream is that things like MDMA, psychedelics et al, were suppressed by for-profit industrial complexes via "the war on drugs" because pharma's patented daily-use recurring business model products couldn't compete with the very cheap to make, administer "2-3 times per year" chemicals that don't have anything close to the same "side" effect profile.

You can see how this regulatory capture still has a hold in Canada for the alcohol industry, where alcohol's a known carcinogen, and as a society we put warnings on tobacco products but no such warnings on alcohol - and this isn't the only incongruence in Canadian policy/culture.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#180

Post by andrei_says_ »

Jerrrry wrote: post #176
andrei_says_ wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this information. My question was - how does it help? What does it do and why is that helpful?

If I get my mail today, I will let you know.

I hope it helps you - but are there any studies on how it works and why? What’s the mechanism of “disassociation” resulting in “getting better”?
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