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Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

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Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#161
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it brings up uncomfortable questions about free will. Like “why did he murder that guy? did he choose to do it or did the chemicals in his brain force him to?”

Uncomfortable questions indeed. It is honestly hard to comprehend how people believe in it at all. I understand that people do, but it’s mystifying, like a belief in god or even Santa Claus. Regardless, justice systems (incentives and accountability) and incarceration (incentives, and ideally rehabilitation) have nothing to do with free will. Any connection between free will (presence or absence) and the justice syst…

It's actually hard and absurd not to believe in a Creator.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the dissasociative ketamine help?

Ketamine (as its S-isomer) is approved by the FDA for treatment-resistant depression. Note that while the evidence for Ketamine's antidepressant effect is actually strong, that does not mean you should get into the habit of snorting a gram of special K a day. Ketamine abuse is known to cause serious, practical damage to the GI tract, the urinary system, the liver, and the brain.

Thank you for this information. My question was - how does it help?

What does it do and why is that helpful?

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to recommend a lecture by George Lakoff - The Neuroscience of Language and Thought https://youtu.be/JJP-rkilz40 Within the first 10 minutes he speaks of the fact that rational thought as we see it simply does not exist. All our choices are based on the ability to distinguish a preference and that ability is based on emotion. It would only make sense that medication impairing our emotions would also impai…

Not only that, but if meditation has taught me anything, it's that your "conscious rational thought" isn't really conscious. ...like, basically at all. The decisions are getting made unconsciously and then kicked up to your conscious attention, already made.

Yes, my meditation experience is similar, and he states it in the same lecture.

The belief that we are rational beings making informed calculated decisions is outdated and proven to be wrong.

Yet, we continue to think of ourselves this way, at our peril.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#164
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience was the opposite. In fact, after taking medication to fix it I later stopped because of this naturalistic fallacy. I knew it was bunting some of my emotions and I figured whatever the drugs are doing I can do with lifestyle changes. 10 years later, a daily habit of exercise and cold showers, a variety of daily natural supplements like turmeric and magnesium, and a career later.. I was no different. I'd…

> My theory is this was because of some adverse childhood events I experienced, that seemed to change something in me. Have you considered some sort of regression therapy such as hypnotherapy or if more adventurous, plant medicine? I sat next to a pretty senior FBI guy on a domestic US flight once. He was a hypnotherapist who claimed that in almost all cases they were able to use hypnosis to get information about wha…

I'm not sure they would help as I don't actually have traumatic memories from back then. I went through stressful times when young, where I was in a society I didn't fit into and dealt with a lot of stress. I don't know why this should make me permanently unhappy, but since then I've felt this way. But no memories of that time are particularly bad, in fact I have plenty of fond memories of that time. Maybe too much stress just has some certain effect on developing brains, is my personal theory

I find those ideas intriguing in their own ways, but I'm not sure if they'd help in my situation.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#165

(Just my personal, anecdotal experience - I have strong family history of depression and anxiety on both sides of my family and it's something that's afflicted me since I was a teenager.) I will be extremely hesitant to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications ever again after my last experience with them. For me, the medications helped by tempering all of my feelings - I no longer felt sad or anxious, inste…

I strongly encourage anyone reading this to watch Dr Ben Sessa's lecture on using MDMA to treat addiction and trauma. https://youtu.be/11u7iX4j1tA

The reality is, SSRIs and other pharmaceuticals that have been used to treat common psychiatric illnesses (anxiety/depression) have dismal outcomes and fail the vast majority of patients that they have been given to.

Fortunately, there is a growing body of evidence that MDMA and psychedelic assisted therapy could revolutionize the treatment of mental health disorders.

Unfortunately, for the last 50 years, governments, industry and the military industrial complex (together with the MSM) have spread lies and scaremongering to block the therapeutic use of these life-changing therapies.

Here is another video for anyone wanting to know more about the topic:

(Lecture by Prof. David Nutt: The New Psychedelic Revolution)

https://youtu.be/1JjzVcfei60

I'm optimistic that the next few decades will bring about better approaches to these massively underserved (and largely exploited and discarded) people.

References: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01336-3

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09540261.2021.1...

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#166
post #157

Insert yet another HN thread of people who happily support the covid vaccine because doctors say to get it, but yet in this thread those same people recommend a bunch of alternatives to what someone's doctor suggested/recommended. Medication has absolutely saved my life, and made my life and those around me significantly better. I'm triple vaxxed. Doctors recommended both. YMMV.

not at all trying to contradict you, but I think the discrepancy may be due to people's trust in virology vs psychiatry. Psychiatry has a bad reputation (we were giving people lobotomies not that long ago) and even today, the literature often fails to be as scientifically rigorous as other fields, in my opinion.

> the literature often fails to be as scientifically rigorous

I don’t think that’s true. I think the sciences of psychiatry/psychology/neurology have several problems that are very unique that make them challenging fields. The literature is scientifically sound in methodology and data-analysis, but these challenges have the field progress slower, and have many false paths.

1. The brain is inherently complex. It might not be the most complex thing we study scientifically, but it’s complexity is a very big issue.

2. It’s really easy for the third-variable problem to have in impact in psychology/psychiatry. A classic example of this is the generalization problem. A study done in the US or France or another Western Democratic Educated country often will have findings that do not apply in Asia or African countries. Large swaths of the literature have questionable generalization, to the point this is often acknowledged inside the literature itself.

3. We have limited tools for studying these fields. The gold standard, the FMRI, requires people to be completely still and in a very artificial environment. This clearly will influence test results. This lack of tools is everywhere. We cannot directly measure happiness. We can ask people if they are happy. We can ask their friends and family if they seem happy. We can measure how much time they smile. If our sample size is large enough we can compare life outcomes like suicide. Every way we have to measure happiness has flaws, which makes drawing conclusions harder.

4. Ethics plays a huge role. We cannot, for example, randomly assign 100 children to play violent video games for 20 hours a week from age 10-18 and assign 100 children to never play these games. Thus any data we have about violent video games and children will not be as clean. We can assume that children that decide to play violent video games probably share other traits and would differ in a lot of ways to children that do not decide to play violent video games. Thus, it will be hard to determine if the violent video games had any impact, or if it was a third variable that many in the violent-video-games cluster share.

5. This happens everywhere, but this field especially is prone to journalists misreporting and misinterpreting the literature.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#168

(Just my personal, anecdotal experience - I have strong family history of depression and anxiety on both sides of my family and it's something that's afflicted me since I was a teenager.) I will be extremely hesitant to take antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications ever again after my last experience with them. For me, the medications helped by tempering all of my feelings - I no longer felt sad or anxious, inste…

Regarding lying, I actually brought this up in my last therapy session because an SSRI gave me the opposite effect. Taking sertraline greatly reduced my ability (or rather, willingness) to lie. My psychiatrist attributed it to my improved self-confidence while on the drug. I'm not totally convinced. I do feel greater confidence indeed, but it seems like I'm less worried about what others think of me. It feels like there's not too much to gain from lying.

I have taken other SSRIs before, but it is puzzling how each one has its own particular behavioral effects even though they all are increasing serotonin.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be more concerned with the psychological effects of birth control, which in my opinion are drastically understated and underesearched. We are toying with the hormones of tens of millions of women and the vast majority are unaware of the potential differences in decisionmaking and behavior. There are secondary effects as well, for example, women have been shown to select for more dominant, aggressive men wh…

If millions of women haven't noticed a change in behavior in real life my default assumption is the change of behavior only occurs in the artificial conditions created by the researchers themselves.

This assumes most people notice most changes in their behavior in real life. Some may subtly change over time, others may be in blind spots... and it's not like many people are tracking themselves in this kind of way. You might be overestimating people's introspection here. Think of all the people who start overeating without noticing or even start doing something radically different without reflecting.

Re: Serotonin selectively influences moral judgment and behavior

#170
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience was the opposite. In fact, after taking medication to fix it I later stopped because of this naturalistic fallacy. I knew it was bunting some of my emotions and I figured whatever the drugs are doing I can do with lifestyle changes. 10 years later, a daily habit of exercise and cold showers, a variety of daily natural supplements like turmeric and magnesium, and a career later.. I was no different. I'd…

> My theory is this was because of some adverse childhood events I experienced, that seemed to change something in me. Have you considered some sort of regression therapy such as hypnotherapy or if more adventurous, plant medicine? I sat next to a pretty senior FBI guy on a domestic US flight once. He was a hypnotherapist who claimed that in almost all cases they were able to use hypnosis to get information about wha…

> in almost all cases they were able to use hypnosis to get information about what happened even if the conscious person was completely unable to recall any details

In the 80s we had Satanic Panic because of false memories "retrieved" with hypnotherapy. It turned out that the "memories" were implanted unknowingly by the hypnotherapists themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic#False_memories

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