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Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

moneyland.time.com

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Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#21

Post by castewart »

yellowbkpk wrote: post #9
fredBuddemeyer wrote: post #6

genius. who needs voluntary transactions live venture capital or angels, what have they ever done? instead lets take money from everyone (if they don't like it we can lock them in a cage) and then give it to others who we decide are worthy.

Outside of Silicon Valley (and a few other hot spots maybe) "voluntary transactions" aren't happening, so the government feels the need to step in.

That's not true at all. SBA and SCORE offices help entrepreneurs all over the US get outside funding. Silicon Valley may have the largest numbers, but it doesn't mean the rest of the country isn't investing...

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#22

Post by oldstrangers »

jeremymcanally wrote: post #7

The ignorance displayed in the comments on that article is scary. It's quite obvious a lot of people have never been in the position to actually need this sort of aid before, so it's easy to knock everyone using it as "an illegal" or "lazy." Of course people will abuse this, too, just like they abuse the unemployment insurance we have now. But to me, the net positives that come out of this will outweigh the (probably…

The comments on that article were infuriatingly stupid.

This one, probably most of all:

"Hilarious, what kind of "jobs" are all of these inexperienced young people going to create for themselves? Another Obama giveaway."

Obviously this guy doesn't have an account with Google or Facebook.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#23

Post by mbesto »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #12
jeremymcanally wrote: post #7

The ignorance displayed in the comments on that article is scary. It's quite obvious a lot of people have never been in the position to actually need this sort of aid before, so it's easy to knock everyone using it as "an illegal" or "lazy." Of course people will abuse this, too, just like they abuse the unemployment insurance we have now. But to me, the net positives that come out of this will outweigh the (probably…

First, who said "an illegal" or "lazy"? Searching the page I only find your comment using those terms. Second, "the system is already being abused so lets allow further abuse" isn't really a great argument. (For the record I'm actually in favor of this I just don't think your tone is necessary and I think it discourages anyone who might disagree)

1. Read the comments on the actual article, not HN.

2. Unless you have another ingenious way to make unemployment money more efficient, I see it as a fairly decent argument.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#24

Post by nhebb »

becomevocal wrote: post #2

This seems really cool and all, but what are we talking about in terms of wait time and hurdles to jump through? Anyone know details? I've looked into and seen others go through grant processes and they are often terrible. Hope it isn't similar.

I'm not sure there are details yet. The stimulus / jobs plan has been proposed, but there is no bill written yet. It will be another ten days before Obama presents his plan on how to pay for the jobs plan, and the bill won't likely be written until after that.

This is a great idea and would have helped me when I faced this situation 9 years ago. Following a layoff, I asked the unemployment office about this, and they said I must actively be looking for work. Still, I think the overall economic impact of this proposal is small potatoes compared to the overall jobs situation, but I guess every little bit helps.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#25

Post by cheez »

krschultz wrote: post #20
cheez wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people downvote this. There are two problems when you have a democratic system of government (the US is no longer really a republic IMO): 1. Special interest groups 2. Involuntary taxation The two combined make for some quite uncomfortable moral hazards. If you pay taxes in the US, you are paying for continued aggression. Or education you'd rather provide yourself. Or any number of things that you do…

I downvoted it because it was a horribly written political cheapshot. I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment but the quality of the post was terrible. Politics doesn't really belong on HN anyway so if you are going to inject it into a discussion it has to be intelligent (ignoring my snarky response to him that will likely garner downvotes as well).

Obama's aid plan etc etc -> not politics?

I agree, keep politics off HN.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#26

Post by srdev »

krschultz wrote: post #17
fredBuddemeyer wrote: post #6

genius. who needs voluntary transactions live venture capital or angels, what have they ever done? instead lets take money from everyone (if they don't like it we can lock them in a cage) and then give it to others who we decide are worthy.

Other option for people who don't like it: leave the country. You wouldn't know it listening to most people complaining but unemployment insurance was not something implemented in 2008, it goes back to the 1930s. That should have been plenty of warning for you to find a place with a tax rate and entitlement system to your liking. Sorry, there aren't a lot of options in the 1st world without taxes and entitlments, but…

I'm conflicted on the idea of leaving the country as a solution. Its not enough to simply live and work in another country -- you're still liable for taxes. You have to fully expatriate and renounce your citizenship. This is often very difficult and time-consuming to do, and near-impossible if you're not in a skilled line of work.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#27

Post by sneak »

ori_b wrote: post #19
anamax wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, govt feels the need to step in. The relevant question is whether said "step in" makes any sense. If there really are such wonderful opportunities, why aren't you funding them?

I don't have enough cash on hand.

Interestingly enough, neither does the US government.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#28

Post by JayWilmont »

anamax wrote: post #10
jwb119 wrote: post #3

About time. The policy of forcing a decision for laid off people between 1) sitting around doing nothing (i.e. "looking for a job") and being eligible for free money vs. 2) trying to start something which could have an an impact in not only getting that person back into a paying position but also on the economy as a whole (and thereby being ineligible for money) needed to end

> The policy of forcing a decision for laid off people between 1) sitting around doing nothing (i.e. "looking for a job") and being eligible for free money vs. 2) trying to start something There was no such policy - there was no such "decision". The standards for "looking for a job" are/were low enough that one could be trying to start something at the same time. (I know - that's what I did.) While we like to talk ab…

There is such a policy, at least in New York State. Any time spent on "self-employment" activities reduces the amount of unemployment insurance money you receive.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#29

Post by JayWilmont »

tibbon wrote: post #14
maratd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a grant. It's a modification of the rules for unemployment insurance. It's a good change. It allows you to use unemployment insurance to pursue your own business for about half a year. Of course, for you to be eligible for unemployment insurance, you had to have been employed at some point and gotten fired. It's also a paltry sum. But, again, any movement in the right direction is a plus.

Strange question, but couldn't you always do this? From my understanding, unemployment insurance only required that you take no/low salary from a company. You were still able to receive money from capital-gains/investments. Start a consulting firm/startup, pay yourself a $1 salary with stock options. Don't exercise these options for a long time (when you stop UE). I read the UE stuff time and time again in Massachuse…

Remember unemployment insurance rules vary depending on the state. New York State for example asks if you are employed, not if you are drawing a salary.

Re: Obama's job aid plan - $10,000 to $13,000 in assistance for entrepreneurship

#30

Post by sologoub »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #12
jeremymcanally wrote: post #7

The ignorance displayed in the comments on that article is scary. It's quite obvious a lot of people have never been in the position to actually need this sort of aid before, so it's easy to knock everyone using it as "an illegal" or "lazy." Of course people will abuse this, too, just like they abuse the unemployment insurance we have now. But to me, the net positives that come out of this will outweigh the (probably…

First, who said "an illegal" or "lazy"? Searching the page I only find your comment using those terms. Second, "the system is already being abused so lets allow further abuse" isn't really a great argument. (For the record I'm actually in favor of this I just don't think your tone is necessary and I think it discourages anyone who might disagree)

There is a comment from jmfay on there that talks about "illegals"...
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