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I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

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Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#171

Post by kodemager »

lproven wrote: post #158
ricardobayes wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car industry is going in the direction of manufacturer rebuild (remanufacture), so laptop industry should do the same. Instead of making unupgradeable garbage, manufacturers should offer upgrades.

I am not sure of what you're saying, perhaps partly because I don't own a car, and never have since I got my driver's licence at age 38 or so. I do recall a neighbour of mine saying "back when cars went rusty" to me a decade back, which surprised me. A lot. Apparently they don't now? But modern cars, and many modern motorbikes, are sealed units which are not maintainable by the end-user. I dislike electronics like th…

How often do you upgrade your phone or laptop?

I ask because I sort of went the opposite road, making sure I bought something that would last a long time.

Aside from screen resolution and the modern “anything” thinking we all have high resolution monitors my old 2015 MBP is still performing just fine despite its heavy usage.

In the same period I’ve gone through 5 or 6 work laptops that were certainly not top end.

I’m of course scared that the glory days of Apple died and my next mbp won’t live 10 years, but I hope so.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#172

Post by Cthulhu_ »

j45 wrote: post #166
Ensorceled wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be a kickstarter but it is definitely a startup in a tough space, being skeptical of its long term success is pretty reasonable.

Try one out before you start with that conclusion

That's the thing, their USP is long-term maintainability and upgradeability, but if they call it quits in a year, you're stuck with a niche product that nobody else is willing to make parts for.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#173

Post by somesortofsystm »

I have, over a few decades now, treated my computers like an artist would treat their paper notebook, and have therefore every laptop/portable in my personal collection as reference. Well, almost, I was lucky to have had a GRIDpad back in the day, and I still haven't got around to finding a Dauphin DTR-1, but .. yeah .. the point is, my Thinkpads are still freakishly reliable, great computers, upon which to hack.

Another thing, more 'personal' computing experience .. Prior to his 'upgrade' to a gaming laptop, I had the eldest of my kids on an ol' Thinkpad or two, Linux of course, and not only did they gain much great understanding of things before encountering the consumer zone, their siblings act as force understanding multipliers.

I am often much amused at their insight into why their friends Windows bollocks needs to be blown away &etc. .. although they do somehow seem to have managed to maintain their own Windows (gaming) systems well. They at least knew what Linux was before that became a thing in their lives.

I attribute that fact to the Thinkpad being really great to hack on, and solid enough to give to an 8 year old and expect to have it sort of still work for a while, and in our case, a few early hacker minds were well serviced by its dependability ...

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#174

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

thrower123 wrote: post #165

The most salient thing about this whole episode is that the author was even able to upgrade anything on the laptop. I would happily take a little bit chunkier case like we used to have if that meant that I could swap out parts without having to use a soldering iron.

The "unsexy" business or workstation laptops from basically every large computer manufacturer allows this.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#175

Post by brightball »

y4mi wrote: post #90
black_puppydog wrote: post #65

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

There are upgradeable options though. The framework Laptop to name the most hyped current option for example.

I’m watching them closely for my next machine in a year or 2.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#176

Post by paulcole »

black_puppydog wrote: post #65

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

> Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering,

I’m not sure what part of this article gave you this idea? It’s clear to me the author is gravitating towards a solution that allows him to tinker to his heart’s content. I mean did you not see the pile of wires connected to the eGPU — on a laptop?

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#177

Post by Copenjin »

maccard wrote: post #28
bungle wrote: post #15

> The CPU innovation stagnation between 2012-2017 has resulted in 4 cores still being an acceptable low-end CPU in early 2022 I recently got M1 Max MacBook, and I was expecting a huge jump from my 2010 Mac Pro, but on my day-to-day work. It is barely noticeable, despite the raving reviews of M1. Perhaps for me it is not about things getting obsolete, but more of that my own needs on CPU/GPU performance were pretty mu…

> I am a programmer, so my needs are not that high This isn't true for all programmers. I'm a programmer, and until 3 years ago a good chunk of my day was spent waiting for compiles to finish. > Or perhaps it is that after 12 years, the laptops are now on bar with desktops. I think the biggest improvements for me in last 20 years have been the SSDs and then the NVMe. Not even remotely close. I have an AMD threadrippe…

3 times faster with 64 cores instead of 10, that slower single thread performance is having a big impact.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#178

Post by openplatypus »

archi42 wrote: post #121
openplatypus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, can you share more? What is your programming environment? I am debating a move to desktop/workstation with desktop CPU to support smoother Scala/lots-of-containers development experience. Pandemic made laptops less appealing. With digital nomadism being a question mark for some. Yes, I do know some still continue to practice this lifestyle. I can be only jealous :)

Depending on your needs(!), you can just use the laptop as a frontend for a much more powerful machine. I did that for a while with a Sandy Bridge (core i7-2xxx gen) dual socket server in the basement, and it did work quite well. No matter if I was at home or somewhere else - but for dev work ssh into the Linux host OS was enough for me, with an occasional RDP into a Windows VM.

I considered this option with NoMachine and in-house power-machine or cloud workstation. In a way make sense, but ultimately, I decided against because:

Security – having open port to workstation makes me scared; bugs/0-days are discovered every day;

Quality Internet Connection – less tricky as most access would be local LAN, but I am certain that few times I need it remotely to fix a production issue, something will go wrong;

Maintenance vs Cost – in-house machine would be cheaper but will require remote power on/off capability vs in cloud server being rather pricey

But yes, in general, I agree. Having a light, portable device with long battery life and connecting to a remote, beefy machine would be a dream. And I am not imagining it, as this was my workflow back in 2013 when I was working for a bank. If it was possible then, it definitely is possible today.

Have high hopes for https://shadow.tech/

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#179

Post by Aeolun »

maccard wrote: post #148
bungle wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, definitely not true for all programmers. I guess with games, if you cannot get real time with instant compiles development experience with 120fps running 8k in debug mode, there is a room for improvement. I compared highend 2010 desktop to highend 2021 laptop on my use case (which is arguably much lighter). And for my workloads, the laptop is no more a limiting factor (which is great, but not a leap from 2010 de…

> Yes, definitely not true for all programmers. I guess with games, if you cannot get real time with instant compiles development experience with 120fps running 8k in debug mode, there is a room for improvement. Day to day that doesn't matter. I work on multiplayer games, and being able to run 8/12/16 clients on one machine at 10 fps at ultra low graphics is far more important than being able to run stupid resolution…

> the 3090 scores twice what the M1 GPU does

It helps that you can buy a maxed out macbook pro for the price of a single 3090 though.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#180

Post by jart »

black_puppydog wrote: post #65

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

I've been using my Thinkpad T420 since 2011 just fine and I haven't needed to do anything to it.
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