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I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

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Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#121
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a programmer, so my needs are not that high This isn't true for all programmers. I'm a programmer, and until 3 years ago a good chunk of my day was spent waiting for compiles to finish. > Or perhaps it is that after 12 years, the laptops are now on bar with desktops. I think the biggest improvements for me in last 20 years have been the SSDs and then the NVMe. Not even remotely close. I have an AMD threadrippe…

Oh, can you share more? What is your programming environment? I am debating a move to desktop/workstation with desktop CPU to support smoother Scala/lots-of-containers development experience. Pandemic made laptops less appealing. With digital nomadism being a question mark for some. Yes, I do know some still continue to practice this lifestyle. I can be only jealous :)

Depending on your needs(!), you can just use the laptop as a frontend for a much more powerful machine. I did that for a while with a Sandy Bridge (core i7-2xxx gen) dual socket server in the basement, and it did work quite well. No matter if I was at home or somewhere else - but for dev work ssh into the Linux host OS was enough for me, with an occasional RDP into a Windows VM.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#122

I'm all for frugality but that seems like a lot of compromises for what is this person's main work laptop. Cool that it works; but why have a slow workhorse like that? I picked up a Samsung Galaxybook a few weeks ago. Nice core i5 system on a chip thing with Iris XE gpu. Runs cool including when under load and it's fast enough. Driver support seems decent in Linux. Even the graphics are quite alright. I played some s…

> I'm all for frugality but that seems like a lot of compromises for what is this person's main work laptop. Cool that it works; but why have a slow workhorse like that?

That's exactly what it was in my case. Maybe it isn't so bad with Ivy bridge, but my previous laptop that I upgraded from was an i7 Sandy bridge T420s. It has the 1600x900 display, and I decked it out a long time ago with 16GB and a solid state.

But still, it totally choked on youtube/twitch 60fps feeds if they weren't piped through streamlink+VLC. I'm pretty self-satisfied with how long I was able to stick it out, but when I got my first tech job last year, it just choked on video calls, necessitating an upgrade to something more reasonably specced.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#123
A laptop for software development or ANY serious work? No thanks.

Instead I want a better keyboard, video display, and processor and want room for several disk drives, provision for more peripheral devices, etc.

And I'm currently rushing back to the last update of Windows 7 Professional, a copy of Office 2016 (the 2013 version is fine except for Outlook that needs an update for a change in SMTP email standards), and an old version of Firefox. For Firefox, I have been using it to view my 6000+ HTML files of software documentation via a simple macro in the editor KEDIT, but now each time I want Firefox to display such a file I get an absurd delay and three popup windows, one to decline an update, one asking me to make Firefox my default Web browser, and one to announce that there is an update to Firefox. So, I'm just trying desperately to do MY work, and just from a simple attempt to use Firefox I get jabbed in the ribs about updates twice.

I've specified both to Firefox and Windows some hundreds of times, maybe thousands, dozens in the last week, that Firefox IS my default Web browser. Somehow Windows and/or Firefox interact in some way to refuse to accept that Firefox is my default Web browser.

For an update to Firefox, I've declined that now likely over 10,000 times, maybe 20,000 times, including a few hundred in the last two weeks.

It appears that Firefox does have old versions available. They worked MUCH better than the recent version I've tried to use, and the old versions didn't keep pestering me, interrupting my work, stopping, refusing to work, until I click NO to some pop-ups about updates. In the old days, when a horse or mule suddenly refused to move, it got whipped.

Just now I've had to stop all my work to respond to these problems of Windows and Firefox that have recently and for no good reason sabotaged my work.

I've also been having similar problems with Adobe's Acrobat PDF reader. E.g., somehow the location of Acrobat was changed from

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat DC\Acrobat\Acrobat.exe

to

C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Acrobat Reader DC\Reader\AcroRd32.exe

So, how that change was done, I don't know. To me, that sounds like a huge problem in computer security -- no such change should be possible. The change broke my KEDIT macro for starting Acrobat to read a line in KEDIT that has the tree name of a PDF file I want to read. Somehow, a bit amazing, the change was also made to my desktop icon for starting Acrobat -- the situation of LNK files for desktop icons now seems to be a complicated subject.

With rare exceptions, I deeply, profoundly, bitterly hate and despise any and all updates to software that is working FINE.

So, back to Windows 7 Professional and some old version of Firefox. Then find how to get Adobe Acrobat OUT of the Windows auto-start list and try HARD to get an old, stable version of Acrobat that does NOT try to do updates.

These updates are nothing less than massive external attacks and sabotage of my work that force me into a version of mud wrestling that takes a huge fraction of my time.

No, no, no, no, absolutely no, essentially always, I want NO updates or new versions.

I want, close to screaming in frustration, to do MY work and avoid the system management disasters and sabotage of my work of absurd updates.

Circumstances, long story, pushed me into a laptop instead of my desktop I plugged together around an AMD FX-8350 processor. By the way, that processor has a cooling fan but it is quiet, can't hear it.

My three favorite pieces of software are Rexx, KEDIT, and TeX, and all are essentially perfect and none are subject to updates for at least some decades. These are three great tools, and I have great success and no problems with them.

If my collection of hand tools worked this way, somehow I would discover that all my English dimension socket wrenches had been converted to metric. Then I would discover that my reversible electric drill had adopted a default of rotating counter clockwise and would not rotate clockwise without my pushing two buttons and holding them for three seconds each, for each use of the drill. And a new drill would have a video message window that frequently put up "Do you want to?" requiring that I stop my work and take out 20 seconds and push two buttons. Still worse will be a car with a pop-up window on a heads up display: To avoid a collision at 60 MPH, I try to slam on the brakes but nothing happens until I click on some icon to respond to some message "Do you want to do that? Using the brakes ..." CRASH.

Wish me luck in defending myself from sabotaging updates and absurd pop-up windows.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#124
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man.. You're comparing a CPU which costs as much as the complete machine (or two M1 airs). It's not portable has a TDP of 280W. Still it's 30% slower single threaded. For multithreaded it's 2.7x as fast. So yeah, maybe for rendering it's faster, but it won't be as snappy as the M1. Then again, if you wanna use it for rendering, just buy 4 M1 macminis for the price of one CPU. Or 6 minis if you add all the oth…

The claim was that laptops are on par with desktops, not that they're good replacement for many workflows. This is just flat out not true. > It's not portable has a TDP of 280W That doesn't bother me in the slightest for a workstation. > So yeah, maybe for rendering it's faster, but it won't be as snappy as the M1. Nobody who cares about performance is doing rendering on a CPU, it's all GPU accelerated. It's not abou…

> not that they're good replacement for many workflows. This is just flat out not true.

it is a good replacement for many. It might not be the fastest of all, but that doesn't mean it's not a good replacement

It's faster single threaded, and will be faster until you fully saturate more than around 14 threads.

Couldn't find a linux compilation benchmark, but here a comparison with the M1 on compilation performance:

https://openbenchmarking.org/test/pts/build-eigen

Compilation test shows that it's even faster.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#125
post #64
post #5

I similarly use a Dell Latitude from 2012. After upgrading to 16GB RAM I don't have any issues with it whatsoever. At work for new devs we bought ThinkPads with Ryzen. These are in general fine, except that multiple people have this weird issue with the computer completely freezing at random times on Linux. The one person who had Windows didn't have this issue. If it weren't for this issue that would be our default b…

> At work for new devs we bought ThinkPads with Ryzen. These are in general fine, except that multiple people have this weird issue with the computer completely freezing at random times on Linux. The one person who had Windows didn't have this issue. If it weren't for this issue that would be our default buy for new hires. Now, I don't know really. Likely an issue with the C6 power state. Try searching for "ryzen lin…

Thanks for the tip!

I know that some of the guys have tried some of the fixes that can be found online with limited success, I'll forward this to them!

It's a real pity though! Were it not for the freeze issue the laptops would be quite solid!

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#126
post #76

1.5 years ago I went ahead and upgraded my retired workplace laptop, a Fujitsu Siemens Lifebook E743 from 2014: - bigger 500 GB SSD, resized system partition (no re-install necessary) - replaced the dual core CPU with a quad core model (Intel Core i7-3612QM, 35W) - replaced its really crappy keyboard with a backlit one from a later model that fitted https://www.facebook.com/gernot.kieseritzky/posts/1022366591... All…

Also a nice thing on Fujitsu Notebooks is, the power adapter stayed the same since many many generations. I can use the same adapter for my 2006, 2014 and 2020 Fujitsu notebook. And yes, I upgraded also the two older models with more Ram and SSD.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#127
post #43

After upgrading the display, CPU, disk, RAM, fan, battery it's a bit click-baity to say you've gone back to a 2012 ThinkPad - but interesting read non the less. What surprised me the most is that Lenovo ships something as annoying as a loud fan (easily replaceable even for a home tinkerer). Of course they save a few pennies per laptop; but no laptop can ever be good if it's noisy. That was one of the main reasons why…

> After upgrading the display, CPU, disk, RAM, fan, battery it's a bit click-baity to say you've gone back to a 2012 ThinkPad

Well, I think the main point is : regardless of how better some modern components are (e.g. screen resolution, CPU energy efficiency with 10nm process, etc), the build quality, keyboard comfort, repairability and amounts of I/O are critical aspects that have dramatically regressed in the recent years. (Not even mentioning the Intel ME and Boot Guard that prevent flashing Coreboot).

Besides, it also shows that a 10 years old CPU/GPU is still perfectly usable (and since we only have one planet, it would be desirable to extend the lifetime of our devices... (upgrading the RAM/SSD/Wi-Fi has an environmental impact, but far less than changing a whole machine !)).

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#128

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

I've done something similar with my machines, because it was so much cheaper than getting something new.

You can get a quad core CPU for about $10, 16GB of DDR3 for about $100 and an SSD for $50.

Even if you add a better heatsink and GPU, it's still cheaper than the cheapest machine you can get new (and they come with 4GB, which isn't enough nowadays).

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