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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#991

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

Do you have an email for contacting you at?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#992
post #895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gell-Man Amnesia Effect in full effect. Will we remember when we read the next PR piece/pump and dump disguised as journalism?

I will never forgive Bloomberg for their atrocious handling of Apple/Amazon/Supermicro "hacking" case where they didn't retract their claims despite no proof or evidence. I never cite that publication, it's toxic to me.

No post body was provided.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#993

On the subject of lying tech CEOs, will Musk ever pay for his sins? "I feel very confident predicting 1 million autonomous robo-taxis for Tesla next year" - E. Musk 2019 Did he ever atone for this, or is he still kicking the can down the road? Edit: I know, I know... It's not a crime until it is. Let a jury decide if Musk lied, or if he genuinely believed that his company was capable of producing 1 million robotaxis…

There's a whole thing at work here that basically goes to credibility and obvious intention. I don't know anybody who hears Musk talk and thinks "that's a true statement." He's a circus barker. We might call him a bullshitter -- he's making a big noise, but nobody really thinks he means most of what he says. Musk has spent years building this persona, and so people generally treat him with the level of credibility he…

A black swan event can justify changing a prediction. Musk couldn't know in 2019 that in 2020 and 2021 everybody would pass much more time at home, nobody would travel to the airport or to the workplace for months and therefore the number of taxi customers would run dry overnight. None of us would be able to predict that.

Stop and rethink your plan seems reasonable in this circumstances.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#994
post #912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but how much physical harm did people suffer Is physical harm the only harm that matters? > Are they on the street now, begging for dinner? That's not how justice works.

Why is it justice to dole out physical harm (prison) for actions that didn't cause physical harm? America has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... ).

I'm not interested in the incarceration rates in the US (the legal and social system is so messed up it's difficult to find a starting point - Europe is not different either for the record), the discussion is about what is a valid justice course of action.

Some crimes need physical intervention in order to protect society. It's just reality. For example, a thief that breaches private property needs to be punished, because not only did he steal, but he also caused a loss peace in society, which affects everyone.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From former AUSA, and current white-collar defense attorney Ken White: "She faces a max of 65 years (3x20 + 1x5). And it's not at all clear she'll do less than 20." Apparently the sentences will not necessarily be served concurrently. https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1478170494130003976?s=20

My prediction: sentenced to 20, out in 10.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29793966

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From former AUSA, and current white-collar defense attorney Ken White: "She faces a max of 65 years (3x20 + 1x5). And it's not at all clear she'll do less than 20." Apparently the sentences will not necessarily be served concurrently. https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1478170494130003976?s=20

And to note, these are federal charges so there’s no parole. When you get 20 years in federal time, you may get some time off for good behavior but you’re going to serve most of your sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29795059

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#997
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. my thoughts exactly. i'm woefully underread on the whole situation but something is weird and different about it. one thing that does jump to mind is that the investor list and board composition isn't what i'm used to seeing for stem ventures. i can imagine that perhaps they're less…

It’s the elephant in the room. Hardly ever remarked upon but a complete head scratcher. This company is fated to play a staring role in at least one conspiracy theory going forward.

A useful reminder (in advance) that not all conspiracy theories are necessarily false.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#998
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What Elizabeth did wasn't far from what many many many founders do I'm not sure this is true. She told a lot of egregious lies to investors while trying to get money from them. She repeated those lies in the press and to anyone who questioned it. And I don't mean a lie like lying that your product is more effective than it is. I mean she told prospective investors about huge contracts with the defense department th…

That's not what she said at all. At least not from the near daily coverage and transcripts I watched[1][2][3][4] She said it was being trialed by the military, in reality what had happened was Mattis said he would be able to introduce the technology to the military. This type of "abstraction" is in very many pitches I've read over the years. [1] https://www.youtube.com/c/LawyerYouKnow [2] https://www.youtube.com/chan…

> This type of "abstraction" is in very many pitches I've read over the years.

Nice of you to use quote marks... Because that's not at all what "abstraction" means.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#999

I am glad she was found guilty, but there are a few concerns. First, she was only convicted of lying to her investors, not the actual patients, which is laughable. Second, she is supposed to get up to 20 years for EACH of the counts (they will be served concurrently so she won't get 80 years). And I am curious as to how much time she will actually serve. Third, what kind of sociopath has a baby in the middle of a tri…

> Fourth, what kind of person meets her, googles her, thinks "it's all bullshit", then proceeds to get in a relationship with her AND have a kid with her.

Someone who gets rather handsomely paid for it?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#1000
post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do feel sorry for her in a way. She was riding a treadmill of expectations. Started off slowly, probably thinking "yeah, we can do this" and by the time the treadmill was moving at light speed, it was too late to get off. Even TED has removed her talk from YouTube. What responsibility do the media bear when their shallow hype turns out to be false and damaging to all parties?

I feel bad for her too. She messed up, and probably did it intentionally too. That's messed up, but how much physical harm did people suffer? 60 years of prison time's worth? Near as I can tell a bunch of investors lost some money. Are they on the street now, begging for dinner? Kinda doubt it. Maybe there's a more fitting punishment.

When I read this comment, the comment directly above it talked about people receiving incorrect test results and included links to relevant articles. I think its safe to say that some of Theranos' users did suffer non-financial harm.
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