Doesn't seem like a serious thing. Almost zero chance of passing.
California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
231–240 of 363 posts
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Typical the argument is that a single payer system is to avoid waste. California Government would be the perfect candidate for this since they are so fiscally responsible and do such an amazing job managing their finances. God Speed.
California had a $75 billion surplus last year.
That surplus was on made on extra taxes collected, and not on lean government spending.
I love this state’s geography and food scene, but the various governments here (local, county, state) aren’t exactly the pinnacle of smart governance.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#233Honestly this is a great sign IMO. Rather than forcing this kind of system on a nation-wide scale, something that would undoubtedly make a lot of people unhappy for a bunch of different reasons, we can trial this kind of system on a smaller scale and see how it goes. Obviously the good people of California are okay with paying high taxes, and this is just the kind of thing that the majority of CA people seem to want…
> Rather than forcing this kind of system on a nation-wide scale, something that would undoubtedly make a lot of people unhappy for a bunch of different reasons California is nation-scale. You are still forcing this kind of system into a nation-amount of people.
Nationwide (only one option) vs. nation-like quantity of people (other states, other systems, as options) are very different situations.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you get your entire understanding of economics from an Ayn Rand novel? The idea that there are givers and takers is a nonsense understanding. Even billionaires provide a little value, though not much. I also don't see how the people providing the bulk of value, mostly in retail/service, could afford to leave with billionaires taking all the remuneration from the labor of others. Your analysis is complete bunk.
Did you get your entire understanding of economics from an Ayn Rand novel? That's what it was reminding me of. (The USSR comparison should have given it away, but I can be slow that way.) Complete with the farmers going all "John Galt". Of course, what Rand forgot was that there's not going to be pitchforks at the granary. Like, what, folks are just going to let that land lie fallow? Like there isn't going to be some…
You have to realize that there is decent amount of people who lived through the collapse of USSR on HN, so just because someone mentions USSR in the context that is upsetting to someone with left leanings does not mean that it's without merit.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
They tried to try it, but there were too many hurdles so they abandoned it. California could be the same, but there are benefits it has the Vermont didn't, as well as a significantly larger number of people to negotiate on behalf of. >As with any attempt to dismantle one American health-care system and replace it with another, Green Mountain Care was always going to be a long game. For starters, it would not be until…
> so they abandoned it Did they repeal the tax increase?
Asking the important questions.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#236If this happens, I will most certainly leave the state. I mean this is ridiculous. These people have consistently shown that their ability to spend our tax dollars is literal dog shit. People and companies are leaving the state in droves. And their response is to literally double taxes?
People and companies are leaving the state in droves. That has been the fantasy of many for at least as long as I've been able to read a newspaper, which is going on 50 years. And it never really seems to happen. Sure, there's a year or two of net migration out of the state, a few companies actually do leave, U-Haul reports that there are no rental trucks in the state of CA, they're all in $ANOTHER_STATE. Then a few…
If there are no rental trucks in CA, doesn’t that mean all trucks are gone from CA to other states?
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#237> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…
It’s very hard to do the math here. It’s largely invisible to me how much my employer is paying in health insurance premiums and it’s unknown that they will add that sum to my salary.
> it’s unknown that they will add that sum to my salary.
Well, if they didn't, you could just change jobs. The old benefit of working for an employer that paid all of your premium would be gone, so that wouldn't be a reason to stick with them.
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#238I can't imagine something like this working out well here. In the current environment, I'd imagine a big chunk of the tech force that can work remotely will simply leave the state. This would devastate the states income tax collection.
Like most states, nonresidents owe California tax on income from California sources.
The actual law is a bit more complicated than that. California is unusually aggressive about tax enforcement compared to the IRS and most other states, but if you're for example working for a California-based FAANG in Austin, you're probably not paying CA tax.
(This is not tax advice, I'm not a tax advisor, etc.)
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've NEVER seen an employee denied (or asked) about their medical conditions ever. The enrollment paperwork to the carrier is like basic address / name / effective date for coverage. That is it.
I've been at a small company (circa y2k) that looked at group insurance, and decided against it specifically because of one employee's pre-existing conditions would have made the plan more expensive. Boss was a little too forthcoming with that information, and sure enough, when the employee moved on, we all got insured. Thankfully, that's illegal now.
Yep; I knew a few small businesses where an employee got cancer or whatever and their insurance company let them know that their plan would become significantly more expensive and "hinted" that, to avoid this, maybe the employee in question could be fired for some reason...
Re: California Considers Doubling Its Taxes
#240> to fund a first-in-the-nation single-payer health-care system. This is key here. So instead of paying this out to a private insurance company I pay it in taxes, there by my actual change is net zero, in most cases. I have a feeling most reactions might be headline driven here. I think it’s worth doing the math on how much it costs you in healthcare coverage before really judging a book by its cover here. If my comp…
> my actual change is net zero Really? From what I can find on the internet, CA state income taxes are usually in the 10% range for most folks. Are you really paying 10% of your income for health insurance? I'm paying about 2.5% right now.
Most California income tax returns are AGI 47k or less[2], which we can round up to the top of that (6% marginal!) bracket: 48k. This next bracket, which probably starts at the 51 or 52%ile, is taxed by CA at "$1,672.87 plus 8% of the amount over $48,435."[1], which is about 3.45% actual state tax rate.
The 9.3% marginal bracket stretches from 61k-313k. (260k is the 95%ile for CA tax returns, so minor-increase brackets above this one don't matter all that much) 10.3% is 313k-375k. 11.3% is 375k-625k. (99%ile is 680k)
At 61k, at the end of the 8% bracket, the real tax rate is still just 4.40%. At 100k, 6.30% actual. At 150k, 7.30% actual. At 313k, 8.32% actual. At 375k, 8.67% actual. At 625k, still only 9.72% actual tax rate. We finally cross 10% actual at about $702k AGI.
It's really, really important to keep in mind how much marginal rates mess with calculations, particularly when estimating.
Also, Californians are statistically much poorer than people often expect, especially around here.
[1]: https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/california-state-ta... [2]: https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-adjusted-gross-...