Other commenters have talked about labelling. Maybe labelling of real life data is something they're trying to do; but from my experience with hCaptcha the challenges are _NOT_ real life data. They're AI-generated images which bear a passing resemblance to the targets but if you look closer nothing adds up at all. Here are a couple of examples: https://bearbin.net/images/captcha/1.png https://bearbin.net/images/captc…
Seems like that is another kind of labeling to me: is our generated image good enough to fool a human?
Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
171–180 of 272 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#172Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#173Other commenters have talked about labelling. Maybe labelling of real life data is something they're trying to do; but from my experience with hCaptcha the challenges are _NOT_ real life data. They're AI-generated images which bear a passing resemblance to the targets but if you look closer nothing adds up at all. Here are a couple of examples: https://bearbin.net/images/captcha/1.png https://bearbin.net/images/captc…
Seems like that is another kind of labeling to me: is our generated image good enough to fool a human?
There are also attempts to properly standardize it, and this is called- HYPE [0]. And there are big names like Fei-Fei Li and Michael Bernstein behind it.
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree, Google captchas in my experience are much quicker compared to hcaptcha When cloudflare switched to hcaptcha I definitely noticed it.
Sorry, but Google captcha is specifically designed to annoy real people in some cases. They literally implemented slow fade-in / fade-out for images. This does absolutely nothing against actual bots, but annoying as hell for a real person. Literally any other captcha is better than this.
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#175helping AI train target recognition for military applications probably
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if this means self-driving vehicles' detection of important traffic features will be at the level of an irritated and disinterested web user who is trying to just do the minimum work to please an algorithm.
That's about as much attention the average driver pays anyways. I drive a motorcycle, I KNOW that.
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#177Whatever they're doing it's american-centric. Identify "Crosswalks". What the hell is a crosswalk "School bus" - what's the difference between a bus currently serving a school and another one? "Show taxis", there are no black vehicles listed at all
Or failing 3 in a row because 3 motorcycles or scooters are considered a bike. We will easily win AI uprising.
There won't be one. But there will be more and more unethical rich people using Machine Learning and Deep Learning technologies and vast computing power, money, and political clout to gain things for their own, and many people will suffer or at least be worse off as a result of this.
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many a time I receive multiple challenges on a site despite having selected all images perfectly, and can't help but wonder, "Hey, are they getting me to do more work than necessary because they're running behind on their labelling backlog?". There's definitely a conflict of incentives in this case. If you're a website owner, you're better off choosing a different service which doesn't have adverse incentives, otherw…
There's also a mode where it thinks you are a bot/sucker and gives you unlimited images until you give up. That's always fun.
I'd login, dismiss any popup or interstitial promotions the bank decided to give me, get to the account page, and tell my script to continue.
My script would then use Selenium to click the download button, click the "custom date range" radio button on download popup, fill in the range fields to cover the last 60 days, pick OFX for the download format, and start the download, prompting me to let it know when the download is finished.
When the download finished, I could then go to one of my other accounts at that bank, tell the script I'm there, and that one gets downloaded, and so on.
My bank isn't giving CAPTCHAs so that would still work if I were to get around to updating my script to deal with some redesigns they did of their pages which broke finding the relevant elements on the page.
But I've found that if I do visit a site that uses hCaptcha while using the Selenium launched browser, it seems to get stuck. Click to tell it I'm not a bot. Then get an image test. Answer that correctly and get another image test. Answer that correctly. Then it goes back to the click if you are not a bot thing, and repeats--two more image tests and back to the beginning.
Here's a program if anyone wants to try this and has the Selenium Webdriver package for Python3 installed. This will open a browser and take you to fanfiction.net. Trying to actually read any story will bring up the CAPTCHA.
#!/usr/bin/env python3
from selenium.webdriver import Chrome
driver = Chrome()
driver.get("https://www.fanfiction.net")
input("press enter when done")
driver.close()
driver.quit()
I'm not sure if the looping is a Cloudflare thing or a fanfiction.net thing, because the latter is the only site I use that has Cloudflare's CAPTCHA.It used to be that if you added
from selenium.webdriver import ChromeOptions
and changed opening the driver to options = ChromeOptions()
options.add_experimental_option("excludeSwitches", ["enable-automation"])
options.add_experimental_option('useAutomationExtension', False)
options.add_argument("--disable-blink-features=AutomationControlled")
driver = Chrome(options=options)
you could get past the CAPTCHA, but that stopped working a while ago.There's this project to provide a Selenium Chrome driver that is supposed to not trigger anti-bot detectors [1], but it still hit the CAPTCHA loop when I tried it.
[1] https://github.com/ultrafunkamsterdam/undetected-chromedrive...
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many a time I receive multiple challenges on a site despite having selected all images perfectly, and can't help but wonder, "Hey, are they getting me to do more work than necessary because they're running behind on their labelling backlog?". There's definitely a conflict of incentives in this case. If you're a website owner, you're better off choosing a different service which doesn't have adverse incentives, otherw…
I have found many times that if select an incorrect tile and then unselect it before submitting, I am not presented with multiple challenges. My guess is a bot would not exhibit this behavior. Try it out next time.
Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many a time I receive multiple challenges on a site despite having selected all images perfectly, and can't help but wonder, "Hey, are they getting me to do more work than necessary because they're running behind on their labelling backlog?". There's definitely a conflict of incentives in this case. If you're a website owner, you're better off choosing a different service which doesn't have adverse incentives, otherw…
I've found it isn't about "perfection". It is about selecting the same tiles as an "average" person would. I might stare hard at an image, think that one of the tiles contains a tiny fragment of a traffic light, and select it. That isn't what most other people have already done, so the captcha thinks I'm a bot and gives me tougher and tougher challenges. Ever since I stopped pixel-peeping and started quickly selectin…