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Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

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71–80 of 272 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#71
post #51

Whatever they're doing it's american-centric. Identify "Crosswalks". What the hell is a crosswalk "School bus" - what's the difference between a bus currently serving a school and another one? "Show taxis", there are no black vehicles listed at all

Or failing 3 in a row because 3 motorcycles or scooters are considered a bike. We will easily win AI uprising.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#72
post #56

First, I’m going to teach you to fish. Go to hCaptcha’s website, then scroll to the footer. Click around on the about links. It’ll reveal their business model. This trick also works for other businesses and NGOs. Now, if we look at https://www.hcaptcha.com/labeling we can tell they make money by labeling data sets for a fee. So as a guess, there’s someone out there that needs to improve computer vision detection of t…

Many a time I receive multiple challenges on a site despite having selected all images perfectly, and can't help but wonder, "Hey, are they getting me to do more work than necessary because they're running behind on their labelling backlog?". There's definitely a conflict of incentives in this case. If you're a website owner, you're better off choosing a different service which doesn't have adverse incentives, otherw…

I've noticed that some sites deliberately do this or have lousy code that fails to properly acknowledge captcha completions.

Take archive.is/archive.fo/archive.today, for example. If you're using Cloudflare DNS (1.1.1.1) or iCloud Private Relay, and you visit https://archive.is/, you'll get what looks like a Cloudflare screening page. It's not, though: that page is part of archive.is and is served to Cloudflare DNS users (which includes iCloud Private Relay users)--the use of reCAPTCHA in place of hCaptcha is a giveaway. You can complete the captcha as many times as you like, but you'll never get in.

And how many times have we completed a captcha on a form only to have it throw another captcha in our face without so much as an error message? Sometimes it's just lousy code.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#73
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they start doing captchas along the lines of "check all pictures of potential terrorists" we'll know they're training data sets for military drone manufacturers.

That wouldn't work well. I was in Texas during 9/11 and they were firebombing all the hispanic people's cars because the locals don't really have a good eye for different ethnicities. Its pretty much black/white/terrorist and hasn't improved all that much in the time since. Austin has grown a lot since I lived there are a lot of people from outside Texas have moved there so I'm sure the culture has changed - but when…

This sounds nothing like my experience living in Austin 2009-2017. In fact, this is unrecognizable.

> they were firebombing all the hispanic people's cars

Weird. This is sort of unbelievable. I think I know many Hispanics who lived in ATX during 2001, but they’ve never mentioned their car being firebombed.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#74
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall some controversy a couple years ago over suspicions that defense contractors were using them to train weapons systems. A few people got captchas asking them to identify helicopters.

I'd love to identify helicopters. I do get planes now, but was it specifically military helicopters? I like getting to identify basic things like cars, airplanes and trains with hCaptcha. It's like a picture book for adults, and feels strangely pleasant compared to other captchas.

Yeah, they were military helicopters:

https://old.reddit.com/r/google/comments/5udzy4/hey_google_e...

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#75
post #67
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many a time I receive multiple challenges on a site despite having selected all images perfectly, and can't help but wonder, "Hey, are they getting me to do more work than necessary because they're running behind on their labelling backlog?". There's definitely a conflict of incentives in this case. If you're a website owner, you're better off choosing a different service which doesn't have adverse incentives, otherw…

Whoever made this new captcha I’m seeing starting to see everywhere: https://imgur.com/a/hoyjctl Thank you! itsso much easier than being a labeling bot for self driving cars.

That looks pretty easy for machines. I wouldn’t be surprised if CLIP could solve that out of the box. (Then again, I guess the same applies to “select all the traffic lights”)

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#76

First, I’m going to teach you to fish. Go to hCaptcha’s website, then scroll to the footer. Click around on the about links. It’ll reveal their business model. This trick also works for other businesses and NGOs. Now, if we look at https://www.hcaptcha.com/labeling we can tell they make money by labeling data sets for a fee. So as a guess, there’s someone out there that needs to improve computer vision detection of t…

This became obvious to me when during some period the regular crosswalks, stop lights, and buses got replaced by chimneys, trees, and mountains (!). It was right around the time when some big companies started advertising AI driven quadcopter services.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#77
post #71
post #51

Whatever they're doing it's american-centric. Identify "Crosswalks". What the hell is a crosswalk "School bus" - what's the difference between a bus currently serving a school and another one? "Show taxis", there are no black vehicles listed at all

Or failing 3 in a row because 3 motorcycles or scooters are considered a bike. We will easily win AI uprising.

I'm still not sure whether to include the squares with a tiny fraction of the border of the vehicle. And when they fail me I wonder if I'm doing the wrong thing.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#78
post #13
post #5

You're helping train self driving car models. https://www.ceros.com/inspire/originals/recaptcha-waymo-futu...

But why the boats then? Are there self rowing boats?

Maybe the next big step is creating AI-driven cargo ships that can independently get stuck in the Suez canal.

On a more serious note, I can't shake the impression that would be a logical next step for all long and medium distance freight, be it road, water, air or space. Whether it's a good or mature idea is anyone's guess.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#79
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't work well. I was in Texas during 9/11 and they were firebombing all the hispanic people's cars because the locals don't really have a good eye for different ethnicities. Its pretty much black/white/terrorist and hasn't improved all that much in the time since. Austin has grown a lot since I lived there are a lot of people from outside Texas have moved there so I'm sure the culture has changed - but when…

This sounds nothing like my experience living in Austin 2009-2017. In fact, this is unrecognizable. > they were firebombing all the hispanic people's cars Weird. This is sort of unbelievable. I think I know many Hispanics who lived in ATX during 2001, but they’ve never mentioned their car being firebombed.

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Cloudflare/hCaptcha care so much about buses, boats and trains?

#80
Other commenters have talked about labelling. Maybe labelling of real life data is something they're trying to do; but from my experience with hCaptcha the challenges are _NOT_ real life data. They're AI-generated images which bear a passing resemblance to the targets but if you look closer nothing adds up at all.

Here are a couple of examples:

https://bearbin.net/images/captcha/1.png

https://bearbin.net/images/captcha/2.png

https://bearbin.net/images/captcha/3.png

https://bearbin.net/images/captcha/4.png

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