Tell HN: Salary data is for sale • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#661

Post by Pixeleen » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:06 PM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #594

Pixeleen wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that they have a field for prior names/AKA/aliases, and it's typically immutable. You can watch a person's face change as they read the report.

Whose face to you mean? The person being deadnamed, or the person reading the list of names and realizing the person opposite them is trans? It seems to me that, for the purposes of understanding your legal history it makes sense to keep track of someone's deadname at such an agency. If someone accrued massive debt (or massive positive credit) under their deadname, then that still reflects on them. It sucks to have i…

Like the polite banker opening a checking account for me, or please see my other reply with anecdotes. It does also hurt for me to see that deadname and my thanks for knowing that term.

It is not one's legal history. It's a monster of a private industry trying to justify its own existence, which the world turned without for the longest time. There are many other ways that these reports have harmed non-trans people with false or outdated information.

If someone accrues massive debt, that's the bank's problem, to recover in collections, the court or with the sheriff, and not by giving someone a virtual scarlet letter. Maybe they shouldn't play this massive game of easy, crippling credit, points and cashback rewards. As to massive positive credit, I couldn't care less whether I have their favor.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#662

Post by lovich » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

emteycz wrote: post #460

ant6n wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in certain capitalist societies, the capital decides the laws and allocation of resources. At least in theory, in a democratic society, government should be elected by the people. Unfortunately there never was a democratic, socialist country, so it's hard to make statements based on observation with these matters.

There were many democratic socialist countries, unfortunately socialism devolves into tyranny in less than one election period. For example Czechoslovakia voted for communism freely by its own volition in 1946, and the communists started killing people the same year. It's not an individual's fault - many new unknown people started ruthlessly competing for absolute power as soon as it became available. Similar process…

If killing people is your bar for descending into tyranny then capitalism is guilty of the same thing. The whiskey rebellion happened in the US shortly after it’s formation and that was over paying taxes to the capitalist state. You also had the various government slaughters of workers striking whenever they tried to get a better deal from their employers

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#663

Post by Dave_Rosenthal » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #407

Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they h…

The last part doesn't work in almost any company where you're not directly working with the owner. Middle managers can't approve any raise higher than say, 5%, and even that's after a full review cycle. It's a lot more likely to put a bullseye on your head as "money driven" or something considered negative (yes, the irony is jarring!).

If they tell you this there is a 99% chance is it BS. As someone elsewhere in the thread points out, it's just a manager not wanting to have an unpleasant conversation and saying 'hey, it's out of my hands' with the assumption that the junior employe won't know any better.

If you are truly in a company that far gone with process then all is lost (and top talent will just leave anyways.) Or you are a lawyer :)

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#664

Post by piva00 » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #644

piva00 wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm a naturalised Swede, coming originally from Brazil, so I have plenty of hands-on experience to both be offended as to ask what the fuck are you talking about because it's a hugely racist take on multiple layers. Let me know exactly your points on how Sweden is essentially Rio, I'd love to hear it.

I'm saying that: 1. Sweden is not the same as Denmark/Finland, it's not homogenous at all anymore, in that sense it's very similar to the UK 2. Social trust is still relatively high in Sweden (because of inertia) but it's eroding very quickly with increased heterogeneity and crime. There's nothing racist about pointing this out, it's just a fact. Homogenous societies have much higher trust. I don't think this is raci…

I think I will need some hard data and facts rather than your report. No, none of what I live or hear about in Sweden is anywhere close to Rio, that's my point on racism: you are exaggerating an issue that is not close at all in terms of impact and pervasiveness and using both points to push a racist narrative, that immigrants are causing the downfall of Sweden.

Yes, many of your points have some factual basis behind them but the exaggeration you take them up to is simply the rallying point of the far-right in Sweden, repeating those as if they are causing the doom of society is just fostering their agenda.

Immigration is an issue? Yes in some senses, not in others. You know what is much worse for Swedish society well-being and erosion of the social web? Neoliberalism policies, pushed since the 90s, to the 2000s and onwards. This creates huge fractures in society as you can watch with wealth inequality getting even higher.

Sweden is still, by all accounts globally, a very safe country. Does it have issues that were exacerbated by a huge influx of immigrants? Yes, of course, but Sweden also requires a large swath of ever-dwindling low-skilled workforce, jobs that no Swede would do for the pay are currently taken by immigrants. These immigrants are then able to access the larger system of education for their kids, which will in a generation or two bump them up.

I know that works because I have numerous friends coming from refugee families from Chile, Ethiopia, etc. that are 2nd generation here, and they became lawyers, architects, and so on.

All of your talking points are very similar to the propaganda pushed by SD so I believe you are caught in some echo chamber of those types. Please, get out of that, the world is not so gloomy and Swedish society is not destined to doom. It will be though if this type of narrative keeps being pushed.

You've never lived in Rio, the situation is much much worse than simply "don't wear jewelry and lock your doors"-type of issues... You simply can't grasp it and it's ok, you haven't experienced it in a way that's shaped and molded you as an adult.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#665

Post by mcculley » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

spdcbr wrote: post #660

mcculley wrote: post #641

A few years ago there was a startup called Paysa. You searched by employer and it showed you the salaries of each job title. My company was small enough that it made it easy to see the salary of many of my employees. We did not initially understand where that data came from. I did not leak it. We put together that each leaked salary was of someone who had recently applied for a mortgage or auto loan. Read the fine pr…

What are my options though? I can't opt out of them selling my data, can I?

You might be able to pick a lender who does not sell your data. I have no idea.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#666

Post by reaperducer » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

There was an article in the New York Times about three years ago that ADP sells everyone's salary information, too.

If your company uses ADP for payroll processing, your company has "agreed" on your behalf to make this information available for sale.

Unless you're in a company of three people, good luck getting the payroll department to move to a more ethical payroll provider.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#667

Post by gleb » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

nip wrote: post #516

varenc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow placing a freeze requires filling out a PDF form, attaching a scan of your ID, and then sending it in over email, mail, or fax. The PDF lacks built in form fields you can type in. The extra friction is probably a feature: https://assets.equifax.com/wfs/theworknumber/assets/twn_Empl... (the exif data on that PDF shows the name of the employee that created it and that they used Word 2010...) The Equifax CCPA reques…

Shameless plug [1] that hopefully provides value: simplePDF.eu [2] will allow you to fill it in more easily (the fields are already set) [1] It's a side-project of mine [2] https://www.simplepdf.eu/editor?open=https://assets.equifax....

Neat! How do I save in the filled out PDF??

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#668

Post by drorco » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #561

drorco wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one should not forget that Denmark's society is mostly homogenous. When you have a vastly dominant, culturally homogenous group, it's relatively easy to trust and support one another. In a highly diverse country like the US, where the average New Yorker or new immigrant will have a completely different culture and world view from the average Joe in Missouri, and that's just two examples out of many, it's very…

The reason the US does nothing about climate change, privacy, inequality, etc. is lack of homogeneity? I'd like to see some evidence of the connection. Most of those policies are opposed by the same political grouping. The US has accomplished plenty of things in the past. Homogeneity depends on the definition of the groups. Most people in the US speak English, have a smartphone, etc. The US has long unified behind id…

I wasn't referring to climate change, etc. when I replied to the nice Danish fellow. I was mostly referring to his note regarding the sense of community and equality in Denmark.

My point is that cultural dissimilarity creates a lot of mistrust and frustration. If I don't have the same common goal as my neighbor, and we have a completely different style--our chances to be in conflict are a lot higher, and so my likeliness of wanting to help him out are much lower.

I'm from Israel, and even if you look just at the Jewish demography, the differences between the different groups, are huge -- even though we all speak Hebrew, part of the Jewish culture/religion in some way, etc. The life goals of a secular Jew in Tel-Aviv, could be almost the complete opposite of a religious Jew in Jerusalem -- you can imagine the conflict to be quite immense, and hence the sense of community greatly eliminated.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#669

Post by smachiz » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

hansvm wrote: post #165

what_ever wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the system not ask for SSN to pull this data? If yes, how did Google get your SSN? Disc: Googler.

Google asks for SSN for background checks and whatnot.

SSN and proof of citizenship are required for all US companies to employ someone. It's not just background checks.

Re: Tell HN: Salary data is for sale

#670

Post by aiisjustanif » Fri, Jan 07, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

ok_dad wrote: post #526

Quoted post unavailable.

This should be a welcomed critique. While I believe China is worse, the US has many issues that affect the majority on a personal level that should bother the average citizen more than it does. Healthcare insurance, medical debt, credit scores, worker’s rights, privacy data, and the list goes on.

I could whataboutism your point, but I think it’s clear you aren’t saying we should move to China. Instead the point seems to be that our Democracy seems to be back sliding.

Plus critiquing your government makes for a better democracy.