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Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

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Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#271

Post by chasil »

A few thoughts:

Get the project goals in writing. With good relations, an informal assignment and commitment on both sides is sufficient, if met. That does not appear to apply to you.

If you met the (nebulous) goals, your upper manager might be trying to talk you out of a bonus, or other accolades. This time, let it pass (and say so), but remember how the game is played.

You were criticized for not mining the work of other teams. Place your plans of collaboration before your management, and ask for guidance.

I could say more, and far more options are available to experienced developers within your organization, but the point is that you don't (yet) have these connections, and a grapevine is something you don't have. Your management wants you to have a technical grapevine to mine, but not a running history of their management style assets and disadvantages. Cultivate both.

Be ready to step into another job. Even though you met your goals, they don't seem particularly loyal.

Save your admiration until you are certain that it is deserved. You haven't seen all sides.

Above all, take time to set all this aside, and enjoy your life.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#272

Post by secondaryacct »

Dont worry too much we've all been there. If you want it easy, work at a junior farm first (badly funded startup), that will both lower expectations from the top (you re cheap, nobody is experienced), and create contrast if you work a little bit better than the rest.

I joined a new industry with new methods and Im one of the youngest dev at 30+, and I can tell you all those years working with result first and insane deadlines because no money, makes me more comfortable: even if I dont know something they all do, Im the one pushing for doing it faster anyway and I know the tricks to use productively things you understand halfway while you learn the other half. And when I screw up something they never would have, it's management defending me "but at least he got it done in 2 weeks eventually when you quote us 6 months all the time", which is unfair to the perfectionist OGs (shortcuts were taken) but such is life.

Also accept, as we all do, that it's the job of some people never to be happy and to try the pressure angle on devs of projects slowing down just in case it does something to move faster. And try to stay on the cheap salary side for 2 years while you become useful, that tends to compensate for your lack of xp and their impression of juniors. In my company, the training material for managers to deal with "millenials" is that "they are impatient, they care more about their impact and the praise their receive than the company bottom line" so while that's exaggerated probably, it's also good to reflect on why you care so much about the kudos. Make the money, claim the money.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#273

Post by epolanski »

You should not worry and learn from the lessons. Really, nothing happened that doesn't happen to all of us. Such situations and their handling would not be different in other industries. With experience they will happen less.

Anyway, when your bosses stress you it means their boss stresses them and so on. It's part of the job, and you should decide whether such an environment is good for you, because in good companies the more junior you are, the more protected you are from such pressures.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#274

Post by aidenn0 »

tacostakohashi wrote: post #26

A few takeaways from an old-timer here: > First, he basically tells me this project should have been finished a long time ago and he can't believe it's taken this long etc. I had no idea that he felt this way before the meeting - I've mostly just been working to get it done before the revised deadline my manager gave me. You need to communicate, build relationships, and get feedback from many people in the organizati…

I guess I also qualify as an old-timer and I just have to say that your comment meant I didn't have to write one. You hit all the points I wanted to make.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#276

Post by macksd »

One of the responsibilities of your manager is to deal with a lot of this stuff for you. It can be nerve-wrecking as a new grad, but one of the things I would do in your shoes is have a 1-on-1 meeting with your manager as soon as possible and explain what you have said here: what was said in the meeting, what you felt was fair / unfair criticism, that you plan to learn from what was fair, but that you're concerned about the unfair perception they may have of you. Get their advice. Ask them to help do some damage control of your reputation if that's necessary.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#277

Post by dpedu »

dazeandconfuse wrote: post #94
somenewaccount1 wrote: post #71

My first boss used to mark up my work with red pen (it was a lot of printed output). He was correct to criticize the work, but really sucked how he went about it. Like, it was intentionally a bit demeaning. I left after a couple years, even though I was doing quite well. After reflection some years later, I would say I was overly reacted / was overly emotional over it. But it's hard to feel that way at the time. Alte…

The boss is definitely not incompetent (he's incredibly smart), and I don't feel like he's a dick either. Maybe this is just my naivete from being fresh in the job market, but I really wanted him to like me, and one of the things that bums me out the most here is that now I obviously feel like he doesn't. I do feel like some of his criticisms were unfair, but like I said in my post I can't deny that some of the probl…

I think OP meant incompetent when it comes to management, not technical skills. And I'd agree based on your description of how he handled what in reality is a very minor setback for a project.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#278

Post by HWR_14 »

nlh wrote: post #262
HWR_14 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be used in the context of explaining what changes that need to be made to someone's work for it to be acceptable. "You should have used established crypto library calls here instead of rolling your own SHA-256 implementation with probable bugs. Please fix it" I also think it works well, better than "next time I would", for giving someone permission to do things. "You should have called me when the client asked…

Your first example is great -- in a correctible situation (as with code, or writing, or design), it works and is helpful. You should have used, should have written, should have drawn, etc. But I respectfully disagree with your second example: "You should have called me when the client asked for XYZ" is _exactly_ the kind of phrase I find unhelpful. All that does it lay blame - it says you did something wrong and in a…

I agree my second example was poor. The intention was "should have" would be used when you had an optional, not imperative, future choice. "If you thought something was wrong, you should have (implicit or explicit) felt free to call me and escalate it." And (upon reflection) I don't think it really expresses that at all.

I still feel like "If you needed a mental health day yesterday you should have taken one" can be empowering more than "If you need a mental health day in the future, take one", for the same reason that the middle example is poor. It shifts agency (and blame in the second example) to the person you are talking to. But I no longer even feel as confident in that example either, and would welcome pushback or not on the point.

Thanks for pointing it out. I'll try to be more aware of that going forward.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#279

Post by dbcurtis »

xanaxagoras wrote: post #227
mushufasa wrote: post #24

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

I have this junior engineer DM'ing me right now and I've been ignoring it because I don't want to deal with him and I have my own work to do. I'm reading through your comment here thinking "hey, I'm pretty good at walking that line, bothering the professor when appropriate, not waiting too long and not asking him for help too soon"... and then it occurred to me this guy is probably bothering the professor where I'm t…

I have a theory about why it is so difficult for great IC's to make the jump to being a great manager. As an individual contributor, you need two things most of all: 1. quiet uninterrupted time to focus your mind and get into flow, and 2. quick responses to any blockers or questions that you have so that you can get back into the work. As a manager, a key part of your job now requires you to be infinitely interruptable, so that you can get those answers back to your juniors quickly, and also, you must protect your juniors from as many interruptions as you can. AND THIS IS IMPORTANT: Make sure you are not that interruption. If you want to ask your junior a question, HOLD IT and batch your questions, if at all possible, so that you are not a source of interruptions.

Beyond that, have clear goals, and communicate them clearly. Most people want to do the right thing. The better they understand the goals, the better able they will be to make decisions on their own that don't need adjustment later.

You need to encourage your juniors to ask questions as soon as they need to get clarification or unblocked. To do that, you need to embrace the interruptions, that is your job now. Both the interruptions from your juniors so that they get unblocked, and the interruptions from pesky people that will distract your crew must be short-circuited by you before they get to your team.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#280

Post by vivekv »

mushufasa wrote: post #24

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

This is a mind shift for the new hires. I typically ping them after a few days asking if they need any help understanding the problem or just a friendly chat on why we are doing that particular project and how it will make relevance to the business. The good ones quickly understand if the path they are choosing makes sense and most of the times opens them up to ask questions.
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