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Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

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Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#211

Post by lmeyerov »

myowz wrote: post #7

This boss telling you that they felt the project should have been done a long time ago: I wonder who that comment benefits? Feels like no one. You get bummed, they give late feedback without a lot of constructive aspects to it. I am trying to think of one way it was useful to tell you that, but I can’t. Seems like you should feel justified in not being a fan of working under this person. What you do with that is hard…

A project being late involving a junior dev due to architectural and scoping issues is probably not because of the junior dev but the tech lead and product/project manager. The junior dev is still at risk in practice because the team is at risk and their manager can use them for the blame game.

In this scenario, I'd work through a 5-whys for figuring out why the multiple reasons why the "you're effectively on warning for being fired, and certainly not being promoted" just happened, and the reasons behind them. Ideally with someone at least a few years ahead of you who, and not at the company to avoid politics/bias issues. Maybe you need a tech lead or a senior dev mentor. Maybe project planning is broken. Maybe product expectations are broken. Maybe they don't know you're a junior dev and that means basic stuff like teaching you how to work in a team. Once you've done that, then repeat it with your team: they want to do better too, hopefully.

From there, if possible, maybe get it fixed... but it's not your job to fix team culture as someone junior, so also look at switching teams (managers) or even companies. If you believe you're being diligent and working hard, it's a net loss for yourself and better functioning teams to keep underdelivering for reasons not under your control. Other places would be happy to have you, help you be more productive, and your career + their results will be better. Leaving at 1-3mo point is not that bad on a CV (and you can drop it later) -- leaving at 6mo-24mo is the bad one.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#212

Post by r00fus »

dazeandconfuse wrote: post #41
mushufasa wrote: post #24

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

Thanks. I definitely will take that into consideration in the future. I'm not sure if it would have helped in this specific case but I can definitely think of other situations at work where taking your advice would have helped me.

The 'bother the professor' part is key. With new teammates, I want them to reach out if they're on a project I'm leading. If things look like they're going well - then it's great to get positive feedback. If not, better to change direction early (lost work due to changing requirements).

Do you have a weekly 1:1 with your manager?

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#214

Post by ykevinator2 »

My advice is, do you work profitably not "right." Business cares about profit, so don't burn money (your salary) on stuff that won't make more money than is being spent. Not that you should ditch quality because quality affects profit but you have to find the way to make money for the company. I hope it works out for you because it sounds like you're good at your job and don't phone it in. That sometimes gets punished when it's not done profitably. For what it's worth, you are likely really hard to replace because the supply is so limited but if you like the job and want to stay then this is "fixable" (quotes because it's not really broken but you're not gonna win that argument with your boss).

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#215

Post by nlh »

rdtwo wrote: post #181
nlh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this sentiment. And in fact, I’ll take it further: I’m not sure any “you should have” phrase is ever beneficial UNLESS it’s in the context of giving guidance about the future. And even then, it’s better to phrase it as “next time, I would suggest…” This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. “You should have” phrases are often used to berate or make the recipient feel bad while acting as a vent fo…

So i work with this person that is really slow. She should have accomplished a task in 2-4 weeks and it took her 6 months. We gave her 3 months to accomplish it. So at some point you do need to point out that a task should not have v taken as long as it did and ask the person why it did. Was there some sort of unknown issue that caused the task to take 4x longer than expected

This is a great example - thank you. Rephrasing as a "you should have", it would read:

"You should have been able to finish this in 2-4 weeks, but it took you 6 months. What went wrong?"

That's actually useful feedback, I think. It highlights that the giver believes the recipient has abilities that exceed the demonstrated result.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#216

Post by lettergram »

You may not like my advice, but it’s the truth.

1. you’re doing well enough. If it is a pattern your boss will mention it, if not it was just feedback. Maybe your boss was having a bad day, maybe you need to work harder, maybe you had some mistakes

2. Grow a thicker skin. Every single meeting with my boss I ask for harsh feedback. Every meeting with my teammates I tell them to lay it on me. Honesty, is what helps us grow.

3. No need to be mean, but if someone in my team is missing expectations I tell them so. I suggest ways to improve, say “hey; you really let me down here”. And we try to figure out how to improve. That’s how business works. Take the feedback and move on.

4. If you can’t move on, self reflect. Maybe you’re too sensitive. If you feel your manager was unprofessional, mention it. If you feel it’s just your feelings hurt, then recognize it as feedback and when you feel you improve, ask your manager if they saw said improvement. Make it a two way conversation.

5. People get impressions — you don’t change them by complaining. You change them by performing well.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#218

Post by deagle50 »

brandon272 wrote: post #129

I would have an honest conversation with your manager about the meeting that you had with the manager's manager. Be plain and tell them that it made you uncomfortable and confused given your contributions to the project and the fact that you hadn't heard any negative feedback prior. Their response could be one of many. They could say that the boss is an asshole and just overreacted. They could say, "Actually, they we…

This. You manager was expecting negative feedback and left you holding the bag. She should know that you know, and that you were a good sport this time, and that going forward you would really appreciate to be on the same page. Otherwise it's a toxic environment and a huge red flag.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#219

Post by unobatbayar »

This is really incredible. You are on one end of the spectrum by being hardworking and motivated, while I on the other end of the spectrum by being lazy and unmotivated. While both being misjudged.

I started last year, and since then I was constantly late to work, left home early, and always complained about design, tasks and so on. Took ages to understand code written by others and just thought it's over-engineered when it's clearly just my lack of skill. Moreover, the deadline and planned launch is delayed too; I firmly believe this is my fault. Yet, my boss thinks I worked really hard, and the delay is not related to me. I told him this is not the case but he says just work hard this year while giving me a good performance review.

I'm completely blown and with the shame and guilt I'm feeling, the way I proceed is to work hard and actually contribute to the project. If I was in your case, I would tell them the truth of which you did work hard with so much care. I'm afraid if you don't do this immediately it would end up as a trauma and will stay in your head for a long time.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#220

Post by kmonsen »

rdtwo wrote: post #181
nlh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this sentiment. And in fact, I’ll take it further: I’m not sure any “you should have” phrase is ever beneficial UNLESS it’s in the context of giving guidance about the future. And even then, it’s better to phrase it as “next time, I would suggest…” This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. “You should have” phrases are often used to berate or make the recipient feel bad while acting as a vent fo…

So i work with this person that is really slow. She should have accomplished a task in 2-4 weeks and it took her 6 months. We gave her 3 months to accomplish it. So at some point you do need to point out that a task should not have v taken as long as it did and ask the person why it did. Was there some sort of unknown issue that caused the task to take 4x longer than expected

(1) I don't think you can reliably say after the first suck project. Some people are a bit slow at picking up new things, but become very productive after a while.

(2) Others pick things up super quickly, but never become super productive as the first group.

And of course lots of variations of people that don't fit neatly into either group.

I am in group (2) I think, but in my experience you really want people that become strong experts after a while. They are the ones I have seen do the best over the long term.

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