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What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

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Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#441
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

United States does rank below the UK in terms of social mobility. The notion that that is because the economic development of the country is "finished" seems weird. https://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report....

"United States does rank below the UK in terms of social mobility." It always did, because the US had slaves, and ex-slaves who had no much opportunity to 'climb'. The US now also has a giant class of a specific kind of migrant - Latinos from Central America, who are completely different than those from Spain or Cuba and the rest of the world. They exist in a kind of 'separate' USA and while technically might have th…

>Latinos from Central America, who are completely different than those from Spain or Cuba and the rest of the world. They exist in a kind of 'separate' USA and while technically might have the opportunities others have, they live in a system that is not suited to exploiting them. They are happy in their version of he US, they're family oriented, patriots - but not going to college or after the white collar trades like migrants from 'everywhere else'.

This is so wrong and misinformed it's hard to know what to say. This sounds like the happy slaves justification for slavery.

The fact of the matter is that Latino immigrants from Central/South America follow the same path of assimilation as immigrants from anywhere else do. From the outside it may not see like it but that's because there's a steady flow of new immigrants. I've taught a lot of second-generation Latino immigrants who are very much interested in college and white-collar trades and not looking to continue in low-wage service jobs.

To the extent that there's no opportunity to climb it's because of racist attitudes like yours.

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's expensive, no one wants to pay for it, and our general political leadership is inept at best and corrupt at worst and is incapable of managing reasonable infrastructure projects.

Serious question: what are the benefits of burying cables? Purely aesthetic? Losing power less than once a year due to a downed line really just isn't a big enough deal to justify the expenditure. Even low-prob/high-risk event justifications aren't particularly compelling (there are much more important ways to harden the grid). If this went up for a vote in my muni, I'd probably be a "no". So many better ways to spen…

Personally I find it so ugly that it ruins the look of everything. It makes me think that nobody gives a damn, and it makes me also not give a damn. Like if all the houses on my house had broken windows, I'd feel like I lived in a dump, and I'd be right. It's like nobody likes to look at things.

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's expensive, no one wants to pay for it, and our general political leadership is inept at best and corrupt at worst and is incapable of managing reasonable infrastructure projects.

Serious question: what are the benefits of burying cables? Purely aesthetic? Losing power less than once a year due to a downed line really just isn't a big enough deal to justify the expenditure. Even low-prob/high-risk event justifications aren't particularly compelling (there are much more important ways to harden the grid). If this went up for a vote in my muni, I'd probably be a "no". So many better ways to spen…

Underground is safer, less prone to accidents (trees falling), take less space, reduces deaths and injuries by car accident (cars hitting poles), less maintenance due to not being exposed to elements, and of course the aesthetic aspect.

Honestly the aesthetic aspect alone should be enough. We care about the aesthetics of everything else around us and a lot of it is also fairly well regulated. Wires are absolutely hideous and it's perfectly feasible to bury them in most cases

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no set policy one way other the other Isn't that the idea of liberty though? No central authority deciding what is a "good thing" - just keeping the peace.

That reductionist approach to liberty is a mirage for teenage boys and hermits. If I can do whatever I want, you can’t. The United States would have been pushed into a deep depression, but for JP Morgan’s vacation plans being a little different. Early 20th century America was not a radical place, the fact that the Federal Reserve was created underlies how fubar the system was.

> was not a radical place

By what metric? For who? Surely it was good for some and bad for others, much like any other place. How comfortable people are and how happy they are are fundamentally unrelated to how free they are.

> how fubar the system was

All we basically disagree about is how the general welfare clause is to be interpreted. It had a narrow interpretation for most of US history, and then a broad one starting in 1936 with United States v. Butler. The US was clearly a good place to live pre-1936, given that so many people immigrated there. I don't see why a continued narrow interpretation would be catastrophic.

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is though, since they can debase that self same currency as they see fit. This fundamentally changes the playing field when negotiating your taxes with the government. The only reason USD has any value at all is because it's what everyone has to pay taxes to the US government in, and what US bonds are paid in.

What you’re saying is essentially “imagine a government with the power to create laws that allow arbitrary imprisonment with no recourse, that would be tyrannical”, which, yes, but that only has to do with the currency because that’s what you chose for your example. Said government could pass a law stating that all citizens must be in two places at once, and achieve the same effect.

As mentioned in a previous comment, I'm saying "Imagine a government without broad power over general welfare". This was the US government until 1936 with United States v. Butler. I don't think it would be a catastrophe to reverse this decision again. It seems that in spite of best efforts, the US has failed to preserve the very meaning of liberty, as it was initially envisioned, from total deterioration even in its very definition.

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#447
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"United States does rank below the UK in terms of social mobility." It always did, because the US had slaves, and ex-slaves who had no much opportunity to 'climb'. The US now also has a giant class of a specific kind of migrant - Latinos from Central America, who are completely different than those from Spain or Cuba and the rest of the world. They exist in a kind of 'separate' USA and while technically might have th…

>Latinos from Central America, who are completely different than those from Spain or Cuba and the rest of the world. They exist in a kind of 'separate' USA and while technically might have the opportunities others have, they live in a system that is not suited to exploiting them. They are happy in their version of he US, they're family oriented, patriots - but not going to college or after the white collar trades lik…

[deleted]

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Those that have the power to trick others into giving them even more power have little restraining them from doing so. It's also complicated by the fact that those who push against it haven't exactly made a name for themselves as reasonable people (at least the most vocal ones haven't) leading to derision of "freedumbs" and so forth. I mourn the dearth of different perspectives and not assuming everyone is on a…

I mean, "liberty" is exactly allowing people to convince each other to exchange things. Some people might get the short end, but does that mean it's not free exchange? Or does that mean liberty itself is not an aim worth pursuing?

In my personal opinion it is worth it to have liberty, even if so many people are fine with giving it up to others at the drop of a hat. It's too important not to have. I just wish individual independence wasn't so derided these days.

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#449
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Welcome To 2030: I Own Nothing, Have No Privacy And Life Has Never Been Better Let me translate “you are slaves and you rent everything. We base your ability to purchase on a social credit score. But we let you rent houses in our artificially limited VR world.” I don’t make much of predictions like these. It’s ALWAYS a safe bet to assume people will lose liberty. To the point the FED was created in 1913, research w…

Yes and no. You see, "private property" was a step up from Feudalism. It allows you to own things. For example, the Web disrupted AOL, MSN, Compuserve, cable channels, radio stations, journalism, etc. But then, people started to just make their own "private" sites bigger. "I built it -- I own it!" OK, so Mark Z owns facebook, Jeff Bezos owns Amazon, and so forth. Our public discussions take place on "privately owned"…

> You see, "private property" was a step up from Feudalism.

Private property absolutely existed under fuedalism as well, albeit in a more limited form for most people. Serfs generally worked land privately owned by - or granted by the crown to - private individuals. Minor nobles had property rights equal to and exceeding those of private landowners today.

Property other than real estate was privately owned by serfs. This included all of their possession and in many cases and countries, their homes. They were usually nominnaly free to move elsewhere, though in practice this rarely happened for cultural and practical reasons.

> So basically the current system has led to a bunch of surveillance capitalism.

I agree completely with this, except for the "capitalism" part. Our current system has arisen in an increasingly regulatory environment, and most of the issues with it are directly attributable to that.

> In short ... your ideas of "private ownership" work on a small level but then you get these large corporations that continue "owning" things [...]

Ah, this strikes me as important. The concept of the corporation - or more specifically, limited liability - is 100% a product of our governmental system. One place where I break from the mainstream in a big way is that I believe that those responsible for a company should be responsible personally for damages caused by that company. How that breaks down between employees, managers, officers, and shareholders is left as an exercise for the reader but suffice it to say that when Exxon covers the Gulf of Mexico with crude oil I believe the damage caused by that should be remedied by everyone involved, including those who allegedly own a share of ownership in the company.

> even "intellectual property" of patents and copyrights

My position here is very adequately described by "Against Intellectual Property", by Stephan Kinsella

https://mises.org/library/against-intellectual-property-0

> But just what does it mean that I "own" 999 houses, and see no lessening of my ability to evict people ACTUALLY living in the house as squatters, just because I contracted with a bank and some "People with Guns" to enforce some "deed of ownership"?

It means that if people don't agree with your practices as a landlord, they shouldn't rent from you. If it's that egregious, homeowners should decide not to sell to you or to demand a higher price.

If people don't want to rent from you, you will have to lower your prices to maintain occupancy. If people don't want to sell to you, you'll have to increase your offers to continue to grow. Both of those things decrease profitability. When they intersect, then you'll have to start selling those houses to recoup your investment.

> Even John Locke [...] > Even Adam Smith [...]

John Locke and Adam Smith are surely foundational, but they are hardly representative of our modern concept of "Capitalism".

For that matter, Thomas Paine is usually thought of as one of America's Founders; he'd likely be considered a Communist today based on the ideas he wrote about.

> It can be summarized like this: "Centralization is bad, and happens through enforcement of some rules. The resources to enforce rules should therefore not be deployed for unlimited value of ownership by accounts, they shouldn't even be centralized (e.g. proof of work mining elects one "consensus leader", or Facebook has a huge centralized server farm) to the point that you get these pathologies: the elites at the top are out of touch with the people who are ACTUALLY using the products / services. Same with politics / states / etc. Keep it decentralized whenever you can.

This statement is really interesting to me. I'm an Anarcho-Capitalist. Obviously, based on your post here, you and I have very different ideas of what an optimal socioeconomic system would look like.

... yet I completely agree with the statements "Centralization is bad" and "Keep it decentralized". I would go so far as to say that while our policy ideas aren't compatible, our worldviews are. We could likely work together to build something that worked well and that we both hated in equal measure. :)

Re: What the world will be like in a hundred years (1922)

#450
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is very interesting especially if you think "synthetic foods" not just literally but as take out, processed products and such. I know a lot of young professional people who technically never cook. Like almost never and whatever they have at home is just snacks, if you hungry > order. There are a lot people like these. Anecdata – I'm on of these people. I live in central Stockholm, Sweden, and almost any hour o…

> Why should I, when I can just as easily order in? Because > I really enjoy cooking, I can spend hours doing it ? Also if you are even just an average/mediocre cook, you can usually cook more tasty and interesting food than what you typically find on Uber eats, unless you order from a different high end restaurant every single day.

If you extend this into making/mending your own clothing, doing your own plumbing, electricity etc., suddenly all your time goes to these "maintenance" tasks.

Sure if you're growing food as well on the side so that you can sustain yourself completely, it could be a happy way of living life. But if you have to work 8 hours per day to make a living, the spare time is valuable and subject to prioritization. Some people do some of these things on the side, as a pleasant hobby, but practically no "modern person" does all of them.

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