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Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

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Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#171

Post by roblabla »

viraptor wrote: post #141
torstenvl wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers for virtualized hardware is one big one. Parallels tools have to be recompiled for pretty much every new kernel version because Linux refuses to stabilize the kernel API. Often I have to edit the drivers by hand (example: replacing "sem" to "lock" for kernel 5.8 because apparently driver compatibility isn't as important as catering to kernel devs who don't know what a semaphore is?). In case you don't think v…

> Parallels tools have to be recompiled for pretty much every new kernel version because Linux refuses to stabilize the kernel API. I don't think that's a fair comparison. Parallels comes with dkms module and while the process of installing involves compiling under the covers, it's just part of installation. It's not the late 90s "compile that driver yourself completely manually" situation. If Parallels doesn't work…

Not OP, but I do want to note, there is a difference compared to windows: Windows has a stable driver interface, which makes it at least possible to have drivers that are basically guaranteed to be future-proof. Linux has no such stable ABI, and frequently does breaking changes.

Both approaches have their upsides, but I've very rarely had drivers stop working between various windows release. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule here - Yes, I also have had some drivers stop working since Windows XP. But those are rare, and getting rarer as time goes on and MS locks the kernel up, preventing drivers from doing stupid things.

On Linux, the problem only exists for out-of-tree drivers, but those will break fairly frequently for all but the simplest drivers.

As I said in my sibling comment, I don't know how I feel about a stable ABI - I do fear it would make the situation worse with more out-of-tree/proprietary drivers. But it is worth keeping in mind that it does have its upsides.

Of course, MacOS being what it is, it chose the "worst of all worlds" scenario: Proprietary drivers with no ABI stability guarantee. It's not really worth discussing as a point of comparison, MacOS has the worst driver story from the lot, only saved by its intended minimal target hw support.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#172

Post by wirrbel »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #157

stupid question because I have not touched a Mac since 1999. What kind of apps are you using on Mac that if you were forced to switch to Linux you feel that you can't live without? the appeal back then (and from I hear people say until today) was always how everything is neatly integrated. a coherent system from the hardware all the way up the stack. not sure if that is overselling it but at least that's how I unders…

By now the appeal is a classical desktop user interface that has been micro-optimised for the past decades (instead of rewrites like Gnome).

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#173

Post by nicoburns »

maccard wrote: post #167
willyt wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a mac mini is £700 which is the equivalent of ~3 days work for most trades here in Britain. I you value your time as much as a joiner and if it’s going to take you more than 3 days to get your environment setup and keep it maintained then you’re better off just buying a mac.

I work in games for a fully remote company. a Mac mini takes ~5 hours to compile and cook (read: prep the assets) for our game. It's not reasonable to ask someone to have that mac at home, and even if it was, you have to have it somewhere where it's available, has high speed internet, and that person is responsible for the hardware - making sure it stays on when it's needed etc. That person also needs to deal with an…

Scaleway will rent you one for $2.40/day https://www.scaleway.com/en/hello-m1/

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#175

Post by pjmlp »

willyt wrote: post #165
SmileyKeith wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does generally work, but it requires a lot of manual effort to setup the environment correctly with Xcode's SDKs to satisfy the compiler / linker.

Also a mac mini is £700 which is the equivalent of ~3 days work for most trades here in Britain. I you value your time as much as a joiner and if it’s going to take you more than 3 days to get your environment setup and keep it maintained then you’re better off just buying a mac.

First world problems.

In some other countries I have seen an iMac been shared across teams that would take turns at the device.

In Germany I would state the same statement, we live between Windows and macOS on the office, but I also have some care for those that aren't so lucky.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#176

Post by AndroidKitKat »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #157

stupid question because I have not touched a Mac since 1999. What kind of apps are you using on Mac that if you were forced to switch to Linux you feel that you can't live without? the appeal back then (and from I hear people say until today) was always how everything is neatly integrated. a coherent system from the hardware all the way up the stack. not sure if that is overselling it but at least that's how I unders…

I live and die by my IRC Client, Textual [0]. It may seem like a simple thing, but I've tried all the clients on both Windows and Linux and haven't found a suitable replacement.

[0]: https://github.com/Codeux-Software/Textual

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#177

Post by selfhoster11 »

pxc wrote: post #156
selfhoster11 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want an integrated password workflow, and calling a command line password manager client is the last thing I want to have to remember about. Even if it saves a few keystrokes, it's one less thing to think about.

Isn't having the part that submits the password embedded in the same shell history as the command itself more integrated than having a tool you need to tell to input your passwords pseudo-interactively each time? Isn't it also fewer keystrokes? Either way, if you prefer something more interactive and keybind-y, one portable alternative you can use regardless of terminal emulator without necessarily involving a clipbo…

A multiplexer is an interesting layer to approach this.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#178

Post by beepbooptheory »

willyt wrote: post #165
SmileyKeith wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does generally work, but it requires a lot of manual effort to setup the environment correctly with Xcode's SDKs to satisfy the compiler / linker.

Also a mac mini is £700 which is the equivalent of ~3 days work for most trades here in Britain. I you value your time as much as a joiner and if it’s going to take you more than 3 days to get your environment setup and keep it maintained then you’re better off just buying a mac.

Geez yeah if I was making roughly $1k USD every three days I would definitely be a Mac guy, no question.

Re: Darling – Run Mac apps on Linux

#180

Post by maccard »

nicoburns wrote: post #173
maccard wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in games for a fully remote company. a Mac mini takes ~5 hours to compile and cook (read: prep the assets) for our game. It's not reasonable to ask someone to have that mac at home, and even if it was, you have to have it somewhere where it's available, has high speed internet, and that person is responsible for the hardware - making sure it stays on when it's needed etc. That person also needs to deal with an…

Scaleway will rent you one for $2.40/day https://www.scaleway.com/en/hello-m1/

The difference between $20 per day and $2.40 per day at our current scale is practically 0 - we do a build every 2 weeks or so. We would save $500 a year on our current scale, which is likely less than it would cost in my salary to set up a scaleway account, spin up an M1 instance and configure it. Definitely worth it if/when we look at having more machines up and running though, thanks!
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