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No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

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Re: No Way to Grow Up

#681

Post by yupper32 »

blindmute wrote: post #673
yupper32 wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? When a doctor tells you to take an antibiotic until the bottle is empty, do you ignore them because you've started to feel fine after half the bottle? When a doctor tells you that you need to lose 50lbs, which will significantly change your lifestyle and in the short-term make you u…

> When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? If X is 2+ years, and my feet feel fine, and being off my feet is miserable, then yes I do ignore them. At some point you are responsible for your own life, and that point was a while ago. I hope you realize this before you waste any more of it.

If a doctor tells me that I'm allergic to a bunch of foods, and I avoid them for years, I don't turn around and say "you know what, it's been 2+ years. I need to just live my best life. I'm just going to ignore the doctors now and eat those foods".

It sounds like everyone is just desperately trying to make excuses to ignore the experts here.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#682

Post by DarylZero »

bpodgursky wrote: post #47
stathibus wrote: post #10

In 30 years these kids will be running the world. I can only hope they'll understand why this happened to them, so the next generation will be a bit wiser.

Unfortunately, through advances in medical technology, the 70 year olds who run the world right now will probably still be running the world in 30 years.

The boomers will still be running things in 3000 years.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#683

Post by yupper32 »

ceras wrote: post #678
yupper32 wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? When a doctor tells you to take an antibiotic until the bottle is empty, do you ignore them because you've started to feel fine after half the bottle? When a doctor tells you that you need to lose 50lbs, which will significantly change your lifestyle and in the short-term make you u…

I think there are several differences here. Experts can give a ton of useful information, but they unfortunately can't answer everything for everyone for something as unprecedented and complex as Covid. In particular: 1. Experts speaking publicly are often warning of risks rather than saying "don't do X." It's a subtle but important distinction, and is very different from personal medical advice. Publicly stated guid…

> Experts speaking publicly are often warning of risks rather than saying "don't do X."

> The restrictions in your original post aren't what I've been hearing, for example.

"Avoid crowded, poorly ventilated spaces." - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/gather...

Not sure how you can misinterpret that. Indoor concerts, sporting events, bars, parties, etc. all fall into that category.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#684

Post by blindmute »

yupper32 wrote: post #681
blindmute wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? If X is 2+ years, and my feet feel fine, and being off my feet is miserable, then yes I do ignore them. At some point you are responsible for your own life, and that point was a while ago. I hope you realize this before you waste any more of it.

If a doctor tells me that I'm allergic to a bunch of foods, and I avoid them for years, I don't turn around and say "you know what, it's been 2+ years. I need to just live my best life. I'm just going to ignore the doctors now and eat those foods". It sounds like everyone is just desperately trying to make excuses to ignore the experts here.

So I assume you don't eat red meat or butter? The experts always warn about the health risks of that, too. There's more to life. You don't need an excuse to ignore an expert. It's your own life. You have the full autonomous right and privilege to ignore any advice for any reason you deem worthwhile. I'm eating a sausage literally right now, despite every expert telling me not to. I made this choice.

You are in a cage, but the door is open. We are outside the cage urging you to leave. The experts say not to. Will you live? Or remain locked away? I don't care which you choose, but please understand that the consequence of either action is yours. You lose the right to complain about the cage when you choose to be in it.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#685

Post by School-Cotton »

yupper32 wrote: post #681
blindmute wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? If X is 2+ years, and my feet feel fine, and being off my feet is miserable, then yes I do ignore them. At some point you are responsible for your own life, and that point was a while ago. I hope you realize this before you waste any more of it.

If a doctor tells me that I'm allergic to a bunch of foods, and I avoid them for years, I don't turn around and say "you know what, it's been 2+ years. I need to just live my best life. I'm just going to ignore the doctors now and eat those foods". It sounds like everyone is just desperately trying to make excuses to ignore the experts here.

You keep comparing things of wildly different scales.

Forgoing normal (i.e. unmasked, undistanced, etc.) social interaction is, for most people, a _much_ bigger sacrifice than giving up a few foods you're allergic to.

On the other side, the risk of death or long-term life-altering consequences is _much_ smaller from ignoring Covid precautions than from eating foods you're severely allergic to.

(If you didn't mean severely allergic, but only mildly intolerant, then, well, people can and do eat stuff like that all the time.)

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#686

Post by xboxnolifes »

zepto wrote: post #663
xboxnolifes wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming we are talking about innate and not cultural qualities: If I do not assume we optimize for the quantifiable, I must assume either (1) we optimize for the unquantifiable, (2) we do not favor one way or the other (innately), or (3) human nature has changed over a very short (few thousand year) time period. I was trying to rule out (1). (3) Seems pretty easy to rule out purely on our understanding of evolution.…

‘Tax law’ is not a historical period, nor is it evidence of a preference for quantification in general. Given your apparent desire to be logical about this, it seems almost absurd that you would give this answer.

Tax law throughout all time. I didn't think it was necessary to clarify that point.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#687

Post by xboxnolifes »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #451
xboxnolifes wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the distinction is important in any scenario. It's always the disruption. Put another way: if an earthquake happens, but nobody notices except the Richter scale, does it impact anyone? Of course it's not the pandemic term itself, it's the first-, second-, third-order effects of covid and the term pandemic . Zoom school, masks, vaccines, media coverage, political shifts, fights, worrying about family mem…

> worrying about family members getting sick (possibly dying) That was my point. Is what's hurting the kids having to stay home, and have Zoom meetings? Or is it the fact that they're literally living through a catastrophe? The former is nothing compared to the latter.

I'd think most kids don't actually worry about family members getting sick. They generally feel worry when their parents worry about family getting sick. So, they are being impacted by the social and emotional change in their environment, much less by disease itself.

> literally living through a catastrophe

Relax a bit.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#688

Post by pb7 »

yupper32 wrote: post #667
blindmute wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you generally take no responsibility for your happiness and life trajectory, merely marching to orders from faceless strangers, or is that a recent development?

When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? When a doctor tells you to take an antibiotic until the bottle is empty, do you ignore them because you've started to feel fine after half the bottle? When a doctor tells you that you need to lose 50lbs, which will significantly change your lifestyle and in the short-term make you u…

For one, when I go to a doctor, it's to get their advice/treatment so yes, I will listen to them. Whereas I didn't really ask for experts' opinions on this, they just made it known because that's their job. I take it under advisement but will ultimately do what I think is best considering all the factors, not just the factor of catching the virus. They're not the ones that bear the cost of me wasting my life sitting around.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#689

Post by [deleted] »

yupper32 wrote: post #314
fundad wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's intimidating to go places alone and try to make friends there, it's what a lot of us have had to do any time we moved away from our social groups.

Finding a new group of friends who disregard health experts isn't exactly a great long-term plan. It's amazing that everyone's responses are basically, "the answer is simple! we just completely ignore the experts! we've been doing it all along!" I'm wondering when even the experts start saying "Damn this isn't worth it". What year of masking, remote learning, social distancing, etc. do they start to give up too? 3 ye…

[deleted]

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#690

Post by CountDrewku »

yupper32 wrote: post #357
pb7 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that maybe at some point, especially 6+ months after a highly effective vaccine has been available to everyone that wants it, that people are going to want to go back to living their lives? Get vaccinated, get boosted, take precautions if it makes you feel better, but the show will go on.

Who are we to make that decision? I'm not an immunologist or infectious disease expert, and I'm assuming you're not either.

There is no "we" here. There is personal choice about your own body. If you are scared then stay home and isolate. If you are not then go about your normal life. No once is forcing you to do anything.

At some point you need to take personal responsibility and make your own decisions instead of waiting for some "expert" to tell you how to live.

What do you want? Someone to whisper soothing words and tell you to just wait until X, it'll all be ok?

That's not how life works.

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