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How to design a house to last 1000 years

constructionphysics.substack.com

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Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#301

Post by entangledqubit »

avereveard wrote: post #180
rsync wrote: post #98

This is a very odd design document and it makes me think this author has thought a lot about materials and buildings but not actually built anything . The steel moment frame, to someone with shallow knowledge, sounds so strong and resilient . But in fact, a rigid steel structure is more vulnerable to seismic (and even wind) loads than wooden framing which can flex and move and dampen those loads naturally. The stainl…

> If I had an unlimited budget at some point on the price scale you can just build a titanium cast for a house and pour molten rocks in, probably a basalt. what's the yield strength of igneous rocks? maybe the roof need to be arched.

Maybe tungsten molds instead?

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#302

Post by frnkng »

tzs wrote: post #232
rsync wrote: post #98

This is a very odd design document and it makes me think this author has thought a lot about materials and buildings but not actually built anything . The steel moment frame, to someone with shallow knowledge, sounds so strong and resilient . But in fact, a rigid steel structure is more vulnerable to seismic (and even wind) loads than wooden framing which can flex and move and dampen those loads naturally. The stainl…

> If I had an unlimited budget and was aiming for >1000 years I would pour the piles to bedrock with stainless rebar inside fly-ash concrete and top those pilings with plate connectors into which you could socket large wooden columns (perhaps 8x8) and build the structure with large wooden members connected with steel connectors and column caps, etc. Are there any existing buildings constructed that way that have stoo…

Unfortunately German only: https://www.rheingau.de/sehenswertes/sehenswuerdigkeiten/gra...

The oldest stone house of germany, ca. 1k years old. The wood is dated to 1035..1075 ad.

But Im sure that house is pretty young for Italian or Egyptian standards…

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#303

Post by archontes »

alex_sf wrote: post #256
nashashmi wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rigidity is actually a variable. rigid in the simplest of definition does mean no springy action. Rigid through various fixed connectors implies some spring like behaviors. This is my favorite topic and I could go on and on about this. Point: it is a matter of precise definition. How rigid are we talking?

But everything is a spring.

Literally everything. Harmonic oscillators all the way down.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#304

Post by rootusrootus »

distances wrote: post #280
rootusrootus wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's regional, of course. I'm talking bog-standard everyday houses in the 2500-3500sf range, no mansions.

2500sf is 232 square meters. That's three normal family city apartments by European standards. I guess houses just run bigger there but sounds quite excessive nonetheless.

"Excessive" is a moral judgement. City apartments aren't typically 2500sf in the US, either. I was referring to single family detached homes, which are by far the dominant type of dwelling in my region. Land is cheap, wood is cheap. A 2500sf house will be a good bit cheaper than a little flat in most western European cities, I bet.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#305

Post by thehappypm »

Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

Wood is flammable, and so it’s kind of out of the question. I’d build out of stone or brick, single story but larger footprint. Then of course ground source heat pump and all electric appliances, and solar nearby..

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#306

Post by maxwell86 »

tempestn wrote: post #269
tzs wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had an unlimited budget and was aiming for >1000 years I would pour the piles to bedrock with stainless rebar inside fly-ash concrete and top those pilings with plate connectors into which you could socket large wooden columns (perhaps 8x8) and build the structure with large wooden members connected with steel connectors and column caps, etc. Are there any existing buildings constructed that way that have stoo…

Could be prone to some survivorship bias.

Sure, but what's the alternative?

Dig out all other buildings that failed over the last 1000 years, figure out how they failed and why, and take action?

You can just copy what is known to work instead.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#307

Post by Animats »

jahewson wrote: post #291
Animats wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"rigid steel structure" Steel is springy. Tall steel-framed buildings and bridges routinely sway in wind, which is usually harmless to the structure but annoying to occupants. Unless you get harmonic oscillation, where the energy stored in the motion builds up, which can be a problem and has destroyed bridges. Much of seismic design involves connections which raise the resonant frequency of the structure so it can't…

> That's what those triangular reinforcement beams one sees in San Francisco really do. Interestingly enough that’s not quite right. They were added in response to the Tacoma Narrows collapse which was not, as is popularly misstated, destroyed by harmonic resonance but by aerostatic flutter. Certainly resonance due to cars or pedestrians can damage a bridge, but that’s a separate issue.

Right. But you have to have a structure capable of long-period oscillation to be vulnerable to that particular problem. That's an inherent problem for long span bridges, but a building has to have a big unsupported span to be vulnerable to that problem. Sports stadium scale, though... All that potential lift.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#308

Post by strken »

roywiggins wrote: post #259
rsync wrote: post #98

This is a very odd design document and it makes me think this author has thought a lot about materials and buildings but not actually built anything . The steel moment frame, to someone with shallow knowledge, sounds so strong and resilient . But in fact, a rigid steel structure is more vulnerable to seismic (and even wind) loads than wooden framing which can flex and move and dampen those loads naturally. The stainl…

I'd carve it out of a cave somewhere. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/anglo-saxon-cave-house-sc...

The dugouts in Coober Pedy are a modern example of this. I'll bet they're still there in 1000 years, albeit with damage to the exterior facades.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#309

Post by culi »

If you really want to build a house that will last, you need to build with decay not against it. The reason Japanese architectures are some of the oldest in the world is because they're built to be modular. The prioritize form over material. If one part breaks, you can replace it without having to destroy the entire building. This is also true with Kath Kuni architecture in India. Not only are these building forms extremely resistant to earthquakes and other disasters, but they can also be continuously rebuilt piecemeal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58O7SRy46DM

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#310

Post by anchpop »

thehappypm wrote: post #305
Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

Wood is flammable, and so it’s kind of out of the question. I’d build out of stone or brick, single story but larger footprint. Then of course ground source heat pump and all electric appliances, and solar nearby..

modern wood construction is more resistant to fire than steel, steel loses its structural strength when it gets hot while wood chars on the outside (becoming fire resistant) and doesn’t lose its strength
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