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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#321

Post by gretch »

echelon wrote: post #297
smitop wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use Google Ads: I Googled "crane schools in california" and one of the results was an ad for California Crane School. Apparently they think that they are paying too much on those ads: "The complaint alleges that advertising rates are higher than rates would be in a competitive system".

They're entirely correct. Google and Apple operate as a cartel. If the web experience wasn't 90% Google (outside of social media), and the phone experience wasn't 50% Apple / 50% Google, everything would be cheaper due to competition. Just look at the percentages app developers pay. In a free market with five alternatives, there probably wouldn't even be an app store. We'd do native app downloads over the web and inv…

> We'd do native app downloads over the web and invest a ton of energy into security and privacy controls.

This has been demonstrated to be false. This scenario is exactly what we used to have in the windows PC era and no one invested "a ton of energy into security and privacy controls".

That unfulfilled need is exactly what propelled Apple to the #1 spot when it came to the mobile era.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#322

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #296
fsflover wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is not a source. It's a list of reliable sources. Feel free to read the carefully provided links.

Not one of those sources represents something ‘everyone agrees’ with. You know this.

From my second link: "Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service." If you find The Guardian and Time references unsatisfactory, consider this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21587191.

I really don't understand why you are so much defending Apple.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#324

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #322
zepto wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not one of those sources represents something ‘everyone agrees’ with. You know this.

From my second link: "Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service." If you find The Guardian and Time references unsatisfactory, consider this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21587191 . I really don't understand why you are so much defending Apple.

I’m not defending Apple. I’m rebutting the ridiculous idea that what is printed in the Guardian is what ‘everybody agrees’.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#325

Post by viro »

danvayn wrote: post #318
zepto wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the assumption is that Apple would run Ads against search? There is a good chance that if Apple did have a search engine it would be Ad free, which might still depress prices of Google ads, but it would also decrease effectiveness of those ads.

I doubt it. Alphabet generates $175B+ in Ad revenue yearly and Apples always looking for ways to increase stock value. Apple recently introduced ways to scan while depersonalizing your data which implies it would be easier to read and serve ads to users over it. Not to mention that they can afford the development time and have the userbase and consumer loyalty necessary to build and launch a competitor to Google.

Going into the search AD business would significantly hurt one of the iPhone's most significant selling factors, privacy. Because at the end of the day "Apple makes money by selling overpriced hardware, not by selling your data." The moment that changes trust will be much harder to keep.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#326

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #324
fsflover wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my second link: "Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service." If you find The Guardian and Time references unsatisfactory, consider this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21587191 . I really don't understand why you are so much defending Apple.

I’m not defending Apple. I’m rebutting the ridiculous idea that what is printed in the Guardian is what ‘everybody agrees’.

I did not suggest that an article in Guardian means everybody agrees with that. In this case, Apple themselves agree that the iOS platform is closed for many things.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#327

Post by bagacrap »

viro wrote: post #325
danvayn wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. Alphabet generates $175B+ in Ad revenue yearly and Apples always looking for ways to increase stock value. Apple recently introduced ways to scan while depersonalizing your data which implies it would be easier to read and serve ads to users over it. Not to mention that they can afford the development time and have the userbase and consumer loyalty necessary to build and launch a competitor to Google.

Going into the search AD business would significantly hurt one of the iPhone's most significant selling factors, privacy. Because at the end of the day "Apple makes money by selling overpriced hardware, not by selling your data." The moment that changes trust will be much harder to keep.

how is what they're doing any different? iPhone users are still using ad supported search

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#328

Post by MattGaiser »

echelon wrote: post #297
smitop wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use Google Ads: I Googled "crane schools in california" and one of the results was an ad for California Crane School. Apparently they think that they are paying too much on those ads: "The complaint alleges that advertising rates are higher than rates would be in a competitive system".

They're entirely correct. Google and Apple operate as a cartel. If the web experience wasn't 90% Google (outside of social media), and the phone experience wasn't 50% Apple / 50% Google, everything would be cheaper due to competition. Just look at the percentages app developers pay. In a free market with five alternatives, there probably wouldn't even be an app store. We'd do native app downloads over the web and inv…

> invest a ton of energy into security and privacy controls.

That has never happened. Not in any era.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#329

Post by bagacrap »

echelon wrote: post #297
smitop wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use Google Ads: I Googled "crane schools in california" and one of the results was an ad for California Crane School. Apparently they think that they are paying too much on those ads: "The complaint alleges that advertising rates are higher than rates would be in a competitive system".

They're entirely correct. Google and Apple operate as a cartel. If the web experience wasn't 90% Google (outside of social media), and the phone experience wasn't 50% Apple / 50% Google, everything would be cheaper due to competition. Just look at the percentages app developers pay. In a free market with five alternatives, there probably wouldn't even be an app store. We'd do native app downloads over the web and inv…

the part of my web experience that Google is responsible is exceedingly inexpensive and I have a hard time understanding how competition could reduce the price I pay. Economies of scale don't work in favor of competition unfortunately.

The phone market isn't 50% Google unless you count Samsung as a subsidiary of it. Nor does the existence of Apple help me, the consumer, since they obviously don't compete on price.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#330

Post by jolux »

Kye wrote: post #302
artificialLimbs wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hyperweb..." Wow nice! Now if there was a containers extension I could switch to Safari and away from Firefox.

Tab groups might do this since one of them is private browsing. If groups aren't isolated, implying they are by putting private browsing in there would be a huge UX fail.

I believe private browsing tabs in Safari have been isolated to some extent for a while already — if you sign into something in one tab, you aren't signed in in the other tab, suggesting separate cookies.
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