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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#291

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #273
zepto wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However everyone agrees that Apple created a walled garden which is hard to escape. An obviously false statement. > Try to use their watches without an iPhone. Their watches are an iPhone accessory advertised as requiring an iPhone in order to work. Anyone who buys one thinking otherwise has been misinformed by someone other than Apple, and can return it to the store for a full refund. Then they can buy one of many…

>> However everyone agrees that Apple created a walled garden which is hard to escape. >An obviously false statement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc.#Accusa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform#Aspects > Their watches are an iPhone accessory advertised as requiring an iPhone in order to work. Not in their video ads. Also, at https://www.apple.com/watch/ it's buried at the end of the…

Just because something is on Wikipedia doesn’t mean ‘everyone agrees with it. You can’t seriously believe this.

Are you really trying to claim people are buying Apple watches they can’t use because they don’t have an iPhone?

That doesn’t seem grounded in reality.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#292

Post by nyokodo »

dehrmann wrote: post #290

I'm not convinced Apple could make a viable search product to compete with Google. Their Maps app is OK, but not as good as Google's, and I can't imagine anyone other than the privacy conscious installing an Apple Maps app on their Android phone. It's possible Apple knows it has no interest in the search business, but Google doesn't know that, so they might as well squeeze a few extra dollars out of them.

> Their Maps app is OK, but not as good as Google's

Except Apple Maps has definitely been improving and Google Maps doesn't seem to be substantially improving anymore. At the current apparent trajectory Maps will catch up quickly.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#293

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #291
fsflover wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> However everyone agrees that Apple created a walled garden which is hard to escape. >An obviously false statement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc.#Accusa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform#Aspects > Their watches are an iPhone accessory advertised as requiring an iPhone in order to work. Not in their video ads. Also, at https://www.apple.com/watch/ it's buried at the end of the…

Just because something is on Wikipedia doesn’t mean ‘everyone agrees with it. You can’t seriously believe this. Are you really trying to claim people are buying Apple watches they can’t use because they don’t have an iPhone? That doesn’t seem grounded in reality.

Wikipedia is not a source. It's a list of reliable sources. Feel free to read the carefully provided links.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#294

Post by treis »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #148
pdpi wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Apple we’re talking about. That search engine would be a skunkworks project for several years and rapidly become the default soon after release. Presumably, what Google gets out of this is the assurance that no such skunkworks project exists.

I'm assuming the agreement would not cover skunkworks projects as this would be clearly deemed anti-competitive (collusion) if that deal ever saw the light of day. Even a deal of not launching a product might be deemed as such. But I assume you can't really launch a search engine without a couple of years of user feedback, i.e. tracking what links get clicked and which not, to influence the ranking. And that would re…

The FAANGs did obviously illegal collision on hiring before. Don't see why they wouldn't do so on other stuff. Probably have learned their lesson to not E-mail about it too.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#295

Post by teh64 »

bagacrap wrote: post #230
danielheath wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phone manufacturers incur costs to get it installed. Do you imagine they decide not to pass those on?

really? What cost? Is that public information? My understanding was that play services was no longer part of Android core because Google didn't want phone manufacturers mucking with it (creating an inconsistent and frankly worse experience on some devices), not because they were trying to charge a fee for it.

Google has a certification process to allow play services to be installed: https://www.xda-developers.com/how-to-fix-device-not-certifi... Google forces phone manufacturers to install some google apps to get certification: https://www.kamilfranek.com/how-google-makes-money-from-andr...

And in the EU, companies actually need to pay, if they do not install some google apps: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/19/17999366/google-eu-andro...

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#296

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #293
zepto wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something is on Wikipedia doesn’t mean ‘everyone agrees with it. You can’t seriously believe this. Are you really trying to claim people are buying Apple watches they can’t use because they don’t have an iPhone? That doesn’t seem grounded in reality.

Wikipedia is not a source. It's a list of reliable sources. Feel free to read the carefully provided links.

Not one of those sources represents something ‘everyone agrees’ with. You know this.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#297

Post by echelon »

smitop wrote: post #175
coolandsmartrr wrote: post #72

Why is the plaintiff, California Crane School, suing Apple and Google? As far as I see, the plaintiff is not in the tech business, as they're a school that teaches how to operate cranes[1] [1] https://www.californiacraneschool.com/

They use Google Ads: I Googled "crane schools in california" and one of the results was an ad for California Crane School. Apparently they think that they are paying too much on those ads: "The complaint alleges that advertising rates are higher than rates would be in a competitive system".

They're entirely correct. Google and Apple operate as a cartel.

If the web experience wasn't 90% Google (outside of social media), and the phone experience wasn't 50% Apple / 50% Google, everything would be cheaper due to competition.

Just look at the percentages app developers pay. In a free market with five alternatives, there probably wouldn't even be an app store. We'd do native app downloads over the web and invest a ton of energy into security and privacy controls.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#298

Post by babypuncher »

nyokodo wrote: post #292
dehrmann wrote: post #290

I'm not convinced Apple could make a viable search product to compete with Google. Their Maps app is OK, but not as good as Google's, and I can't imagine anyone other than the privacy conscious installing an Apple Maps app on their Android phone. It's possible Apple knows it has no interest in the search business, but Google doesn't know that, so they might as well squeeze a few extra dollars out of them.

> Their Maps app is OK, but not as good as Google's Except Apple Maps has definitely been improving and Google Maps doesn't seem to be substantially improving anymore. At the current apparent trajectory Maps will catch up quickly.

I would argue Apple Maps is already better in several important ways. It is only a matter of time before it no longer makes sense to use Google Maps.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#299

Post by ascagnel_ »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #286
zuminator wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's very possible that the payment is just for being the default search engine. Because one alternative is that Apple picks another company to be the default search engine. And suddenly Google has lost the most affluent group of consumers and has gained a major competitor. They would pay almost any amount to prevent that from happening. I don't think Apple would want to make itself the default. That would ju…

> I don't think Apple would want to make itself the default. That would just invite all kinds of regulatory scrutiny, and would conflict with their pro privacy image. They did it for other markets where they do compete - maps most notably.

Maps was different, I believe. Google wanted substantial concessions from Apple for them to continue using Google Maps (and to build out new features like turn-by-turn navigation), Apple balked, and Apple Maps was born.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#300

Post by shadowgovt »

smitop wrote: post #175
coolandsmartrr wrote: post #72

Why is the plaintiff, California Crane School, suing Apple and Google? As far as I see, the plaintiff is not in the tech business, as they're a school that teaches how to operate cranes[1] [1] https://www.californiacraneschool.com/

They use Google Ads: I Googled "crane schools in california" and one of the results was an ad for California Crane School. Apparently they think that they are paying too much on those ads: "The complaint alleges that advertising rates are higher than rates would be in a competitive system".

Yes. This is necessary, because US anti-trust law is grounded in consumer harm. It's not enough to say "hey, these two companies are colluding;" if a suit is to be brought, it has to be of the form "These two companies are colluding and as a result I'm getting screwed."
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