How to design a house to last 1000 years • Hacker News Board

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#241

Post by ruined » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #156

Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

What is behind your thinking that plastic won’t last? Plastic is estimated to take 1000 years to decompose in landfills. Obviously it did not exist millennia ago, but I wouldn’t write it off as not future proof. I too have a 200 year old house and the sagging mentioned in the article seems inevitable in wood.

plastic becomes very brittle very quickly (years), and falls apart into tiny bits. it's these tiny bits that (we expect) take forever to decompose.

even if we understood plastic to retain its original qualities over time, it is impossible to speculate about a thousand-year lifetime. it's unusual to come across any plastic a hundred years old, intact or not.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#242

Post by Fiahil » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 7:50 PM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #156

Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

What is behind your thinking that plastic won’t last? Plastic is estimated to take 1000 years to decompose in landfills. Obviously it did not exist millennia ago, but I wouldn’t write it off as not future proof. I too have a 200 year old house and the sagging mentioned in the article seems inevitable in wood.

Plastic breaks down in tiny pieces and is almost impossible to repair when broken. It's also very difficult to reuse or recycle when you want to. If your house is still standing after a thousand years, it's also because its habitants were able to remodel it without destroying its materials.

As a matter of fact, the amazing carpentry I was talking about previously is made from "fresh" oak, but a significant part of it was also taken from a previous building (church, farm, stable or monastery). It's doing just fine, apart from a few out-of-place mortises. I tried reusing plastic pipes, once, but that wasn't a great idea. It's fine for a few DIY, though.

Stones, bricks, wood are great mostly because they can be reused, but also because they will continue to look great afterwards.

(Note: You might argue that "your" wood is not easy to reuse as well. This happens because we put nails and screws everywhere and we prefer less-dense wood over heavier ones (pines vs oak))

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#243

Post by Anon1096 » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

titanomachy wrote: post #194

avereveard wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had an unlimited budget at some point on the price scale you can just build a titanium cast for a house and pour molten rocks in, probably a basalt. what's the yield strength of igneous rocks? maybe the roof need to be arched.

Is that something that we've actually done at any kind of scale?

Not the same, but the Pyramids of Giza are essentially huge rock houses. I don't think they provide very modern amenities though :)

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#244

Post by jerf » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

pharke wrote: post #239

They forgot the most important part about making a structure last 1000 years: it cannot be made of materials that people would conceivably want to repurpose in times of duress or those materials should be in such a form that it is extremely difficult to remove them from the structure. This is how many historical buildings were lost, they were mined for stone to use in other structures. It's also how many modern build…

"We’re also taking something of a risk using something as valuable as stainless steel - a common failure mode for buildings is for valuable material to be ripped out and repurposed. This can range from looters ripping the copper piping out of a house to sell for scrap, to Londoners reusing the stones from ruined Roman buildings, to countries at war melting down building components to make munitions. I don’t see an obvious way of addressing this problem - the risks of corrosion we’re avoiding with stainless steel seems like it’s worth the tradeoff, and covering it with masonry or concrete seems like it would make it less likely on the margin. But this is another reason not to use something as durable as Inconel - the value of the material would likely exceed the value of the building, which is inherently risky for long-term survival."

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#245

Post by mikeyouse » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 7:54 PM UTC

sidewndr46 wrote: post #184

mikeyouse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or wood burning fireplace inserts that draw combustion air from outside and expel the fumes/combustion byproducts outside as well. Not ideal for local air quality, but essentially eliminates indoor pollution from them.

Well sure, if you are the only person for miles that uses a fireplace. Additionally, I think people who are outdoors still have to breathe air.

To that point -- last summer, my friends moved from a mountain town under constant threat of wildfire to a pleasant spot by a lake in the Midwest -- their new neighbor keeps a fire burning 24/7, so they still get to enjoy the terrible air quality all winter long.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#246

Post by biztos » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 7:55 PM UTC

Apologies if someone already made this comment, but if you want your house to last 1000 years I think you ought to start with giving your fellow humans a reason to want that too.

Your future self, revived from a frozen brain in your Auckland compound, is unlikely to find the house still available regardless of how you built it. Because laws, incentives, needs and desires change. This could work to your advantage, with future generations valuing your project-house for reasons you can’t predict, but it’s more likely to go the other way. Even if your sarcophagus is good for eternity, you need folks to leave it alone.

Maybe start by founding a religion.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#247

Post by bdamm » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

A building to last a thousand years, but it has no eaves at all?

Good luck with that. The building might last, but only if each successive owners can afford all the maintenance costs of replacing windows, flashings, sidings, sealants, etc, and all the other exterior materials that will rot quickly due to no eaves to protect them.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#248

Post by downrightmike » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #175

Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

> We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... The article raises an important point that could be a problem when trying to mix old and new build techniques. When talking about brick walls it says: > One tricky thing with this type of assembly is that while it has performed well historically, it doesn’t necessarily play nice with more modern, energy eff…

Mortar holding stones from even Roman times, is still wet in the middle.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#249

Post by ashtonkem » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 8:03 PM UTC

djrogers wrote: post #197

Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

> It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. This is an easy place to run in to a survivorship bias problem - pick a random 1000 year old farmhouse. How many farmhouses built exactly the same way didn't last for various reasons? I…

It’s not clear how many of the no longer extant old homes and farms fell down due to design issues, due to neglect, or were pulled down for economic or aesthetic reasons. Most architectural styles go through a process where they stop being made, start getting neglected, most of them get pulled down, and the few remaining ones get lovingly restored as they get old and rare enough to become retro rather than just outdated. This tells us very little about how well they were built, even with survivorship bias in mind, because very few buildings will survive an utter lack of maintenance, and less still if many were torn down for not being stylish enough to command the level of rent that the owner is hoping for.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#250

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

addaon wrote: post #238

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #181

On a similar note, I've wondered at construction of a million year time capsule. Layered I imagine, with the artifact cargo in some neutral gel, inside a gold envelope, inside a steel envelope, inside a ceramic shell, buried in an ablative material like cement or resin, sunk in a deep oceanic trench?

You're at a time frame where you have to worry about subduction. There's areas of the ocean floor that are candidates, but I'd seriously consider a high orbit or lunar placement if you're going for that time period. Also saves a lot of environmental challenges.

That's true. I suspect the major risk in such a timeframe isn't tectonics, corrosion or environmental weathering. It's likely 'human interference'. Maybe a million-year orbit? So it's safely out of range of meddling for the duration.