How to design a house to last 1000 years • Hacker News Board

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#161

Post by austinl » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #3

If I were to design a house with the idea that it should serve future generations, I'd design it to be reconfigured, recycled, or torn down easily. After reading some of Stewart Brand's writing, I've learned to love ugly buildings.

This is what things are like in many parts of Japan (see https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-reusabl...).

Oddly enough, the value of houses in Japan depreciate over time (like cars). It's kind of a cultural thing. People want to live in a new house of their own, so many houses are built in a pre-fab way, with the intent that they'll be torn down and recycled in 20-30 years.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#162

Post by jandrese » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

One thing he didn't mention in the location section: Make sure your spot is at least 20 meters above sea level. Not only do you need to account for the ground subsisting, but you also need to account for sea level rise. I wouldn't put it near moving water larger than a creek at all, riverbanks can shift over time and so can coastlines.

His suggestion to build in New York City is a bit dubious in a future where we may be forced to abandon the city due to flooding.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#163

Post by LunaSea » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #118

LunaSea wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wouldn't that be an apples to oranges comparison because shutters are fully opaque while curtains are only partially opaque? I would also expect outer shutters to insulate the window a little bit and thus limit the heat loss no?

"curtains are only partially opaque" Not any curtain I've ever encountered - people used to have net screens for privacy and curtains for warmth. But that's going back a bit (i.e. my youth).

Indeed that's what I'm thinking about where the curtains are open most of the day but the net screens are always closed.

It is still a decently common practice in a lot of European countries.

Other option would be to use rolling window shutters on the outside.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#164

Post by horsawlarway » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

prox wrote: post #134

ortusdux wrote: post #53

Stainless steel rebar is an often overlooked option. In theory, solid SS rebar should outlast the concrete, but it is a difficult thing to accurately study. In favorable conditions, regular rebar reinforced concrete starts to need major repairs after ~40 years due to corrosion. The Progresso Pier in Mexico was build over 80 years ago with SS rebar, and reportedly has not needed any renovations. A pier built 20 years…

How does the Pantheon in Rome keep its structure? Is it just concrete? Since it’s 2000 years old now.

Compressive shapes and good concrete.

You start talking about rebar and other complexities when you want a shape that puts concrete in tension (where it's very weak), instead of compression.

Basically - lots of domes and arches.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#165

Post by dpark » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #133

ramshanker wrote: post #82

The moment I saw the diagram text "Seismic moment connection with Fuses", I knew it was not meant to last 1000 year. The moment you introduce seismic fuses, you need active Repair post a large earthquake. This is like expecting to keep repairing every few years and claim Life. My first though reading the title was, you need to build it with STONE. So was "Taj Mahal" and many other religious structure lasting LONG yea…

Stone is heavy: can you design a stone structure to withstand an earthquake? In my magnitude 6.2 experience, stone structures without massive steel framing fail in an earthquake.

Were there no earthquakes in the ancient world? Lots of ancient stone buildings are still standing.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#166

Post by specialist » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

Ya.

I'm very curious about this kind of stuff. And now especially "activhaus" ideas. Being a software guy, probably from envy.

Ages ago, I started remodeling while my Belgian coworker (working from Belgian) started his new home construction. My house in the USA Pacific Northwest is timber framed with tar shingle roof. Coworker's house, IIRC, was block walls and ceramic roof. My house so temporary, their house built for the centuries. A real home.

In North America, I now find the homesteading and packed earth style homes most compelling. Basically, latest tech Arcosanti. (But with better finances.)

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#167

Post by stephencanon » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

A friend grew up in an actual 1000 year-old house in Italy. It's made of stone. It's still there. None of this fancy nonsense.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#168

Post by dta5003 » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #133

ramshanker wrote: post #82

The moment I saw the diagram text "Seismic moment connection with Fuses", I knew it was not meant to last 1000 year. The moment you introduce seismic fuses, you need active Repair post a large earthquake. This is like expecting to keep repairing every few years and claim Life. My first though reading the title was, you need to build it with STONE. So was "Taj Mahal" and many other religious structure lasting LONG yea…

Stone is heavy: can you design a stone structure to withstand an earthquake? In my magnitude 6.2 experience, stone structures without massive steel framing fail in an earthquake.

Carve it into the side of a mass of stone that has survived all the other earthquakes already.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#169

Post by westcort » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:32 PM UTC

I think the only way that is proven is to build a passage tomb, like Newgrange.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#170

Post by austinl » Wed, Jan 05, 2022, 6:33 PM UTC

NortySpock wrote: post #101

criddell wrote: post #3

If I were to design a house with the idea that it should serve future generations, I'd design it to be reconfigured, recycled, or torn down easily. After reading some of Stewart Brand's writing, I've learned to love ugly buildings.

The parent poster is probably referring to "How Buildings Learn", a book by Stewart Brand with lots of architectural pictures and commentary about how various buildings have been (re)used over the decades or centuries. Brand posits (a) human needs change faster than buildings age, and thus buildings must adapt to that change over the lifespan of the building (b) there are two reasons a building lives to be more than…

It's fascinating how culture has effects on architecture. So many older American homes have small kitchens that are separate from a formal dining room. Historically, a family member or cook would be making food separately, out of the way, and then it was presented in the dining room.

Today, everyone wants a kitchen that's integrated with the dining area. Cooking has been culturally elevated – people don't feel like they need to do it out of the way. But unfortunately, many of these older homes cannot be easily modified. Walls are often load-bearing instead of being reconfigurable.