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How to design a house to last 1000 years

constructionphysics.substack.com

101–110 of 402 posts

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#101
post #3

If I were to design a house with the idea that it should serve future generations, I'd design it to be reconfigured, recycled, or torn down easily. After reading some of Stewart Brand's writing, I've learned to love ugly buildings.

The parent poster is probably referring to "How Buildings Learn", a book by Stewart Brand with lots of architectural pictures and commentary about how various buildings have been (re)used over the decades or centuries.

Brand posits (a) human needs change faster than buildings age, and thus buildings must adapt to that change over the lifespan of the building

(b) there are two reasons a building lives to be more than 100 years old: either the building is historic / well loved enough that we live with a building's warts even though it doesn't meet our needs perfectly (a Parliament building, a church, a house that cannot be modified) OR it is so flexible or easy (cheap) to modify that it can suit many purposes. (A small commercial building that can hold a dentist office or a restaurant or a law office or a nail salon, a house with an extension, a warehouse that can be converted to a modest factory floor, etc)

Buildings that cannot be adapted are torn down and replaced.

The book is excellent, and beautiful, and I recommend a physical copy to everyone.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#102
The author cites London as being a desirable city given the historical lack of disasters, steady government, and cultural preference for preservation etc. London was also my first thought as a safe haven for a long lasting build.

On the other hand, I can't help but feel London would be an obvious target for nuclear annihilation in some future conflict; UK commerce / industry / power / wealth is deeply centralised in London.

A better option would be to stick to the UK, but maybe a 100 miles outside of London proper.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#103
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need shudders for your windows? Is that for hurricane/storm protection?

Out flat in Edinburgh New Town had built in shutters on the inside of sash windows - these were actually really effective at helping to keep the place warm - far better and easier to care for than curtains. Edit: I should point out that the Edinburgh New Town is quite old, but not as old as the Old Town, obviously.

But wouldn't that be an apples to oranges comparison because shutters are fully opaque while curtains are only partially opaque?

I would also expect outer shutters to insulate the window a little bit and thus limit the heat loss no?

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#104
Venice has been around for ages and it is just brick houses build on top of a lot of tree trunks driven into a lake and wooden platforms with stone on top - no complex engineering here.

I think the biggest issue having a house lasting is doing constant preventative maintenance or swapping out bits with more modern longer lasting bits e.g replaced all wooden window frames with aluminum.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#105
Building Science Fight Club (I follow on IG. There's also a website.) has made me skeptical about these kinds of articles. There's a ton of nuance to doing construction correctly for the particular environment one is building in.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#106

I hate to be a stuck in the mud, but a concrete pad, with unreinforced piles is not going to last a 1000 years. those piles are going to be impossible to repair without breaking the slab, or undermining, which means it's expensive to maintain. (yes Roman concrete has lasted 1k years, but thats a different type to the cement they use now.) The other thing that they've not managed to control is moisture. You can't mix…

Have they ever figured out how the Romans made concrete and got away with not using rebar ???.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#107

The author cites London as being a desirable city given the historical lack of disasters, steady government, and cultural preference for preservation etc. London was also my first thought as a safe haven for a long lasting build. On the other hand, I can't help but feel London would be an obvious target for nuclear annihilation in some future conflict; UK commerce / industry / power / wealth is deeply centralised in…

Please build it somewhere else. We have enough eyesores in London, don't need another one. Also, based on evidence, houses that last ~1000 years are typically built from stone (see Italy, South of France, Spain, Greece, Portugal) with easily replaceable wooden roof, ceilings.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#108
post #15

Constructing a building that would last 1000 years is not particularly hard with modern engineering and materials. The hard part is, first and foremost, getting someone to pay for it. I'm not going to live 1000 years. My great grandkids likely won't even live to see the year 3022. Why would I spend orders of magnitude more for a house if a structure meant to last ~100 years serves my needs perfectly? My friend just n…

You and your grandchildren are only so relevant.

I for one adore walking around built up areas where the original builders thought further than that. There is beauty in solid houses. They carry history. An old part of town tells so many stories. They embed culture and provide some degree of continuity.

The initial cost is higher. But your grandchildren can sell it. Many generations can profit from an existing building. Floor plans can be adjusted to some degree and modern comforts added at any time.

A flimsy plywood house built to be replaced in 15 years is an expensive tent. It is nothing.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#109
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The second problem is making sure people want to maintain the structure for 1000 years, or at least not tear it down. I don't think this is as hard as the other comentors are saying, though. Just don't build the house in a city. I live in about a 200 year old house but it has been extensively reworked over its lifetime including by me. And given that it's on a nice piece of exurban property it's hardly a stretch to…

I grew up in a 600 year old house. That isn't particularly unusual in the part of the UK I was born in. The village church is 1200 years old. There's a chapel not too far away that dates from around 600 AD. We're not going to change it much. We fix it when it breaks. Most of North America (or at least, the bits I've visited) seems to be fixated with new buildings of sometimes questionable construction standards, and…

It's funny - I grew up in a country with the same mentality as in the UK. But I've now come around a bit more toward the American approach: I still see the merit in preserving history but besides that, what is a good argument for constructing a house to last for a very long time? See, whenever you buy an older house and start renovating it, more often than not you start running into unexpected things that need to be updated. Partly because the original construction may have been especially shoddy (think post-war years), but even for houses that are younger than that, changes in the building code often require updates to the building.

But then, why did the code change in the first place? Some cynics will say "so that they can keep making money" but most of the times it is to synchronize with changes that have happened all around is, including the development of new materials, gained knowledge about the impact of natural factors (not only in earth quake regions), and - in our generation - increased expectations regarding energy consumption (insulation).

All the old houses that do not undergo renovation are way out of sync with modern considerations that manifest themselves in any current building code. So why not tear down a house after 100 years and build a new one from scratch? That process is, of course, quite a bit simpler for the more light-weight wooden houses in North America.

A lot of the construction snobism in Europe against American construction standards is unfounded. As far as residential homes are concerned, I don't believe that there are many advantages of brick constructions over wooden framing besides better soundproofing for most intents and purposes.

Of course, one important thing to consider in this discussion is the availability of land: in North America, outside of the big cities, there is still plenty of land available for building new building while Old Europe is already pretty tightly built up. A lot of the land is in private hands and often unlikely to be turned into lots. Plus, for North America with its car-centric developments, it's easier to find usable unoccupied land that will not force you into crazy long commutes. This is more difficult in some parts of Europe, where the ratio of people to square foot of land is much higher.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#110

I hate to be a stuck in the mud, but a concrete pad, with unreinforced piles is not going to last a 1000 years. those piles are going to be impossible to repair without breaking the slab, or undermining, which means it's expensive to maintain. (yes Roman concrete has lasted 1k years, but thats a different type to the cement they use now.) The other thing that they've not managed to control is moisture. You can't mix…

Have they ever figured out how the Romans made concrete and got away with not using rebar ???.

Yes - basically, high quantities of volcanic ash act as a much stronger binder than is currently used/available now, and the chemistry of the cement they used meant that as it aged it got stronger.

Tangentially - it's not that we can't make concrete that way, it's that for many structures we're building of concrete, building to last 100+ years is over kill, and would increase costs drastically for a building or structure that will most likely be torn down before it reaches its life expectancy.

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