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How to design a house to last 1000 years

constructionphysics.substack.com

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Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#111

Post by arethuza »

franch wrote: post #97
jethro_tell wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Be rich 2. Don't not be rich 3. Make sure your kids marry in a way that keeps the money in the family 4. Build a castle/house of stone. Congratulations, you own a castle

Not all stone houses are castles or luxury residences. My family's house (northern Italy in the Alps) is at least 600 years old (there is a painting on the outside that has been dated to around 1420) but it is a working-class home. The interior has been repurposed many times over the centuries, but it is still there and inhabited. edit: spelling

Entire cities in the UK are famous for the kind of stone they are largely built from e.g. Aberdeen and its granite, Edinburgh and sandstone:

http://earthwise.bgs.ac.uk/index.php/Building_stones_of_Edin...

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#112

Post by ghaff »

duxup wrote: post #72
dahfizz wrote: post #15

Constructing a building that would last 1000 years is not particularly hard with modern engineering and materials. The hard part is, first and foremost, getting someone to pay for it. I'm not going to live 1000 years. My great grandkids likely won't even live to see the year 3022. Why would I spend orders of magnitude more for a house if a structure meant to last ~100 years serves my needs perfectly? My friend just n…

I grew up in a semi rural area. In the more rural area it was not uncommon to have on old farmhouse rotting and a new house next to it. At some point those folks wanted a new house and presumably the cost of what they wanted to remodel was close enough to new that they built news. The available space that you note can also facilitate just building a new house.

I live in an old farmhouse on some nice land. I've done fairly extensive renovations after obviously no money being put into the house for a good fifty years. And it works for me.

It's also "quirky" in a lot of ways including a basement that still tends to get wet and having one small bathroom and no way to easily add another one. I can imagine a lot of potential buyers saying "Love the location but the house has got to go." (The person I bought the house from actually bought the property for the land. He built a new much larger house on one of the two plots he subdivided from the original property.)

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#113

Post by LunaSea »

DiffEq wrote: post #10

You should still use reinforcement in the concrete: Use basalt rebar instead of steel; it will not corrode. Use a nylon fiber in the mix to protect against impact and spalling from fire. Use 5000 psi concrete instead of 2500. This is much stronger and will be less likely to break down under any environment. Use a vapor barrier underneath to help prevent moisture and gas from coming up into the house. Put the foundati…

Thanks for all the insights!

I have a few questions regarding your suggestions:

> Instead of slate..use aluminum shingles

- Is this purely a question of price?

> Use Fiberglass windows. The best ones will outlast any hardwood.

- Wouldn't long term exposure of the fiberglass windows to the sun weaken the fiberglass (this effect seems to be called "Fiber Blooming")?

Finally, do you have any links to share regarding these topics for people wanting to build a house but without the technical background?

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#114

Post by chrisseaton »

jethro_tell wrote: post #77
chrisseaton wrote: post #56

Look around you at the houses which are still standing after 1000 years. Copy their design.

1. Be rich 2. Don't not be rich 3. Make sure your kids marry in a way that keeps the money in the family 4. Build a castle/house of stone. Congratulations, you own a castle

4 is the only really relevant one.

Plus just 'don't knock it down'.

Stone is far more durable than the wood and plaster they use in the US.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#115

Post by rsync »

yosito wrote: post #92
rsync wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to mention that. SS rebar is, indeed, a thing and would be an interesting combination with long lasting (fly ash) concrete, etc.

How long lasting is fly ash concrete?

"How long lasting is fly ash concrete?"

We don't know. Existing structures that use "Roman Concrete[1]" are (roughly) 2000 years old and counting ...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_concrete

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#116

Post by tablespoon »

kube-system wrote: post #65
criddell wrote: post #3

If I were to design a house with the idea that it should serve future generations, I'd design it to be reconfigured, recycled, or torn down easily. After reading some of Stewart Brand's writing, I've learned to love ugly buildings.

Agreed. The idea that homes don't last 1000 years because of their construction quality is conflating correlation and causation. Homes don't last that long because ideas about what (or where) a home should be don't last 1000 years. Heck, in recent times, they hardly last 100 years.

> Agreed. The idea that homes don't last 1000 years because of their construction quality is conflating correlation and causation. Homes don't last that long because ideas about what (or where) a home should be don't last 1000 years. Heck, in recent times, they hardly last 100 years.

And (IIRC) in Japan they often don't last past one owner, since a new owner will typically want to build a new house for themselves on the lot. An old home actually lowers the value of a lot, since you have to factor the demolition cost into the price.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#117

Post by Animats »

rsync wrote: post #98

This is a very odd design document and it makes me think this author has thought a lot about materials and buildings but not actually built anything . The steel moment frame, to someone with shallow knowledge, sounds so strong and resilient . But in fact, a rigid steel structure is more vulnerable to seismic (and even wind) loads than wooden framing which can flex and move and dampen those loads naturally. The stainl…

"rigid steel structure"

Steel is springy. Tall steel-framed buildings and bridges routinely sway in wind, which is usually harmless to the structure but annoying to occupants. Unless you get harmonic oscillation, where the energy stored in the motion builds up, which can be a problem and has destroyed bridges. Much of seismic design involves connections which raise the resonant frequency of the structure so it can't oscillate at a low frequency with high amplitude. That's what those triangular reinforcement beams one sees in San Francisco really do. It's also what all those rectangular trusses under the Golden Gate Bridge do. Those were a retrofit.

Wood's flexibility usually causes problems at joints. Nailed joints are not very strong in tension. Most construction today in areas with earthquakes or high winds involves metal reinforcement of joints. There's a collection of galvanized sheet metal parts for that at any Home Depot.

Tension joints for wood are seen in classic Japanese construction, in boats, and in cabinetry. Not so much in modern houses, partly because they work better in hardwood. I wonder if, in the next installment, the author will discuss those.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#118

Post by arethuza »

LunaSea wrote: post #103
arethuza wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out flat in Edinburgh New Town had built in shutters on the inside of sash windows - these were actually really effective at helping to keep the place warm - far better and easier to care for than curtains. Edit: I should point out that the Edinburgh New Town is quite old, but not as old as the Old Town, obviously.

But wouldn't that be an apples to oranges comparison because shutters are fully opaque while curtains are only partially opaque? I would also expect outer shutters to insulate the window a little bit and thus limit the heat loss no?

"curtains are only partially opaque"

Not any curtain I've ever encountered - people used to have net screens for privacy and curtains for warmth. But that's going back a bit (i.e. my youth).

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#119

Post by osullivj »

kleiba wrote: post #109
azalemeth wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a 600 year old house. That isn't particularly unusual in the part of the UK I was born in. The village church is 1200 years old. There's a chapel not too far away that dates from around 600 AD. We're not going to change it much. We fix it when it breaks. Most of North America (or at least, the bits I've visited) seems to be fixated with new buildings of sometimes questionable construction standards, and…

It's funny - I grew up in a country with the same mentality as in the UK. But I've now come around a bit more toward the American approach: I still see the merit in preserving history but besides that, what is a good argument for constructing a house to last for a very long time? See, whenever you buy an older house and start renovating it, more often than not you start running into unexpected things that need to be…

A house, or any other infrastructure. IMHO a big factor in America's capacity for reinvention and renewal is not being saddled with infrastructure designed to last for centuries. Disclose: I live and work in England, love old buildings and own a 19th Century home made from Malvern Stone.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#120

Post by joatmon-snoo »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #106
KaiserPro wrote: post #100

I hate to be a stuck in the mud, but a concrete pad, with unreinforced piles is not going to last a 1000 years. those piles are going to be impossible to repair without breaking the slab, or undermining, which means it's expensive to maintain. (yes Roman concrete has lasted 1k years, but thats a different type to the cement they use now.) The other thing that they've not managed to control is moisture. You can't mix…

Have they ever figured out how the Romans made concrete and got away with not using rebar ???.

Yes, the research came out a few years ago: https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/msa/ammin/article/102/7/143...

tl;dr: we took a long time to realize that the Romans didn't use potable water, they used saltwater; the volcanic ash they had access to was also very important

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