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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#221

Post by MBCook »

judge2020 wrote: post #173
netcan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not required to enter the search market. But, the revenue Apple get from the deal/trust with Google is better than MSFT or Yahoo ever got by competing with them. It's also easy, risk free and pure profit. So, the deal essentially ensures that Apple will not compete. Apple now also have an interest in maintaining their (alleged) trust. It's now in both parties interest to maintain Google's dominance of the spa…

Note that Apple does have an actual search engine, the ‘Siri suggested sites’ section of iOS results and sometimes within safari itself.

Isn’t that just powered by whatever your default search engine is?

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#222

Post by Bud »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #213
null_object wrote: post #199

I cannot get over how much moaning and whinging people on HN do about supposedly not being able to choose their search-engine on iOS "without jail-breaking" their device when simply switching to another browser like iCab Mobile means they can choose absolutely any search engine they want in addition to the 25 that are included by default . For goodness sake do the minimum amount of research before squealing helplessl…

Defaults matter, and defaults encode the behavioral choices of like 80% of users. The downstream effects of this are that the default options have the most support. Its totally rational to complain about a bad default option.

Defaults do matter, I agree, and it's also ok to complain about any given default option if one thinks it's a bad option.

That doesn't make it ok to lie and mislead people in the process of making that complaint, though. It's very very easy to change the default search engine setting in iOS. It's about as easy as Apple could possibly make it. To allege otherwise, or to state that "jail-breaking" is somehow required, is simply a lie.

Just make the argument without lying.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#223

Post by Bud »

null_object wrote: post #199

I cannot get over how much moaning and whinging people on HN do about supposedly not being able to choose their search-engine on iOS "without jail-breaking" their device when simply switching to another browser like iCab Mobile means they can choose absolutely any search engine they want in addition to the 25 that are included by default . For goodness sake do the minimum amount of research before squealing helplessl…

You don't even have to switch browsers! The option to change Safari's search engine is in Settings > Safari > Search Engine.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#224

Post by judge2020 »

MBCook wrote: post #221
judge2020 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Apple does have an actual search engine, the ‘Siri suggested sites’ section of iOS results and sometimes within safari itself.

Isn’t that just powered by whatever your default search engine is?

Nope, it's Apple's search engine. @lgats here on HN made a frontend for it[0]

0: https://luke.lol/search/ (hn comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29796924)

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#225

Post by throwaway894345 »

null_object wrote: post #199

I cannot get over how much moaning and whinging people on HN do about supposedly not being able to choose their search-engine on iOS "without jail-breaking" their device when simply switching to another browser like iCab Mobile means they can choose absolutely any search engine they want in addition to the 25 that are included by default . For goodness sake do the minimum amount of research before squealing helplessl…

I’ve used DDG as my default browser on iOS/Safari for years without issue. I never even knew this was an issue.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#226

Post by netcan »

koheripbal wrote: post #183
netcan wrote: post #83

The whole structure of antitrust regulation is, by negligence or design, weird and weak. #1 Why does there need to be a plaintiff? A trust affects consumers and society broadly detrimentally, not some specific competitor. The competitor google is likely trying to suppress is some theoretical startup anyway, they probably don't exist to sue. #2 Why the focus on specific damages? The specific harm of such a trust are i…

The questions you are asking are fundamental to the legal system - they are not specific to antitrust laws. All cases must have standing (a damaged party) and must demonstrate damage. This is first year law stuff. Without these requirements, anyone could sue anyone for all sorts of made up baloney - and the suits themselves would be the punitive.

Who says antitrust was primarily a legal matter?

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#227

Post by AJ007 »

Bud wrote: post #222
0xB31B1B wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defaults matter, and defaults encode the behavioral choices of like 80% of users. The downstream effects of this are that the default options have the most support. Its totally rational to complain about a bad default option.

Defaults do matter, I agree, and it's also ok to complain about any given default option if one thinks it's a bad option. That doesn't make it ok to lie and mislead people in the process of making that complaint, though. It's very very easy to change the default search engine setting in iOS. It's about as easy as Apple could possibly make it. To allege otherwise, or to state that "jail-breaking" is somehow required,…

I’m not an expert here, but apparently for Google the default is worth at least $1b a month.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#228

Post by judge2020 »

zuminator wrote: post #205
littlecranky67 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Google pays Apple to be the default search provider" If that is the case they might not act anti-competetive but, rumours are [0] Apple received up to $20Bn per year in this deal. It is hard to believe that this payment is just for being the default search engine. I strongly suspect that Apple also agrees to not build their own search engine as long as this deal is on - and if that is the case, there will be a str…

I think it's very possible that the payment is just for being the default search engine. Because one alternative is that Apple picks another company to be the default search engine. And suddenly Google has lost the most affluent group of consumers and has gained a major competitor. They would pay almost any amount to prevent that from happening. I don't think Apple would want to make itself the default. That would ju…

To add, I can see them arguing in court "Hey, if someone offers us say $21 billion, we'll start an auction between them and Google to see who offers us more. Obviously being the default search on iOS is worth billions."

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#229

Post by nathanyz »

null_object wrote: post #199

I cannot get over how much moaning and whinging people on HN do about supposedly not being able to choose their search-engine on iOS "without jail-breaking" their device when simply switching to another browser like iCab Mobile means they can choose absolutely any search engine they want in addition to the 25 that are included by default . For goodness sake do the minimum amount of research before squealing helplessl…

Defaults clearly matter as evidenced by the multi-billion dollar payments that Google makes to Apple in order to keep it the default.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#230

Post by bagacrap »

danielheath wrote: post #16
awestroke wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never paid to use play services. If you did, you were scammed

Phone manufacturers incur costs to get it installed. Do you imagine they decide not to pass those on?

really? What cost? Is that public information? My understanding was that play services was no longer part of Android core because Google didn't want phone manufacturers mucking with it (creating an inconsistent and frankly worse experience on some devices), not because they were trying to charge a fee for it.
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