Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

eetimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 303 posts

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#131

Post by astura »

deepnotderp wrote: post #17

None of this makes sense. 1. Long shifts are normal for fab operators in the U.S., eg Intel. 2. Certain engineers are always on call if an emergency happens, also true at Intel. 3. Samsung, not exactly the “live slow and enjoy life” type of culture as an employer operates fabs just fine in the U.S.

shrug

A friend of mine works at a fab at another company and he's not working crazy hours. I think he currently works the three days on three days off shift.

It's one thing to have on-call hours, it's another to have on-call hours while also being expected to work 60 hours a week. It sounds like TSMC is expecting the latter.

It might also just simply be a problem with management.

There's other industrial manufacturing that happens 24/7 in the US, so it's possible

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#133

Post by avs733 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #118
ianai wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I’m hearing US citizens have become “practically ungovernable.” I’ve definitely experienced people acting with more hostility and clear inner turmoil just out running errands than ever before now. And this is enough to shock me after living a decade in one of the most hostile, large metropolitans in the US.

I am hearing that employers in the US are no longer able to negotiate the low pay per hours of work, often at undesirable times of the day and week and year, that they used to be able to demand. The type of work described in the article has a reputation of low pay per hour and being undesirable. > TSMC will have to change to an eight-hour work day five days a week.” Is this US society breaking down and American peopl…

it implies a perception of what it means to be governable to one group of people.

Their version of governable seems to mean compliant.

It's not inherently good or bad but it is a particular perspective that I can't see working well in some cultures.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#134

Post by c_o_n_v_e_x »

imgabe wrote: post #53
deepnotderp wrote: post #17

None of this makes sense. 1. Long shifts are normal for fab operators in the U.S., eg Intel. 2. Certain engineers are always on call if an emergency happens, also true at Intel. 3. Samsung, not exactly the “live slow and enjoy life” type of culture as an employer operates fabs just fine in the U.S.

I'm also confused. It's not like the US doesn't have factories that run 24/7. I spent a summer working swing shifts 12 hours a day, 3 days on, 3 days off.

Large continuous process plants like refineries and chemical plants run 24/7. Some processes can’t be shutdown as they’ll be damaged if they are down for too long.

Some plants run the DuPont shift pattern or they run 3 8 hour shifts per day.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#135

Post by lotsofpulp »

avs733 wrote: post #133
lotsofpulp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hearing that employers in the US are no longer able to negotiate the low pay per hours of work, often at undesirable times of the day and week and year, that they used to be able to demand. The type of work described in the article has a reputation of low pay per hour and being undesirable. > TSMC will have to change to an eight-hour work day five days a week.” Is this US society breaking down and American peopl…

it implies a perception of what it means to be governable to one group of people. Their version of governable seems to mean compliant. It's not inherently good or bad but it is a particular perspective that I can't see working well in some cultures.

Compliant means showing up on time and working per the agreed upon terms.

Compliant does not mean accepting piss poor pay and poor work life balance.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#137

Post by neonihil »

It’s like:

People: We want stuff cheaply, immediately and in immense volume!

Production: Moves to Asia

People: We want jobs!

Production: Opens a new factory in the USA

People: We don’t want to work that much!

Production: increases pay, which increases product cost

People: this is too expensive. Can we buy from overseas cheaply instead?

Production: Closes USA factory, moves back to Asia.

People: we want jobs…

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#138

Post by neltnerb »

ianai wrote: post #128
lotsofpulp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hearing that employers in the US are no longer able to negotiate the low pay per hours of work, often at undesirable times of the day and week and year, that they used to be able to demand. The type of work described in the article has a reputation of low pay per hour and being undesirable. > TSMC will have to change to an eight-hour work day five days a week.” Is this US society breaking down and American peopl…

Yeah agree. After reading more of the article I’m wondering if it’s more of a hit piece than anything else. Az has plenty of semi industry. TSMC may just want to back out. Edit-or maybe TSMC wants pretext for some eventual reason like backlash. Edit 2-or it could merely be an author looking for a story or a competitor looking to smear TSMC. People do have a way of seeming All around horrible until some missing criter…

I think they are just unrelated...

I don't really see it as a hit piece, all sides here sound reasonable. It will be interesting to see what the end solution is. I think that the author would have shown a strong opinion on how to resolve it if it was a hit piece.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#139

Post by crispyambulance »

ianai wrote: post #108
Edman274 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. A global pandemic that has resulted in 4.5 million people quitting their jobs in the United States in the last month has resulted in people leaving jobs with long shifts. I bet that this has also affected people in TSMC fabrication plants. 2. It is possible that being on call at Intel requires fewer hours of attention than being on call at TSMC. It is also possible that Intel is offering higher starting salaries t…

Right. I’m hearing US citizens have become “practically ungovernable.” I’ve definitely experienced people acting with more hostility and clear inner turmoil just out running errands than ever before now. And this is enough to shock me after living a decade in one of the most hostile, large metropolitans in the US.

> I’m hearing US citizens have become “practically ungovernable.”

The OP article, IMHO, smells a bit like misinformation. There are interests (especially in the US) which want to see a never-ending stream outsourcing to "low-cost centers". Stuff like the article provides fodder for that point of view by painting a false picture that americans can't measure up.

Re: TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash

#140

Post by monkeybutton »

simonh wrote: post #113
bob1029 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many moons ago I used to work inside a samsung fab. At no point was I ever feeling a sense of outrage regarding having a literal 80s-style pager strapped to my body 24/7/365. A big part of why this didnt bother me was the scale/impact of what I was doing - I was responsible for the primary business interface used across the entire factory floor. Once you see a modern fab with your own eyes, it will change you in a de…

It does sound like an outlier in terms of demand, but to back up your point, there are many industries in which there is critical infrastructure and activities going on potentially 24x7 most of not all weeks. I support financial applications that could be considered critical infrastructure for the country. To the point where the government has set up special regulatory procedures to ensure it’s managed properly. We m…

Mines operate 24/7 with 12 hour shifts. Many build and run their own infrastructure, including power plants.
Post reply on HN