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The New Apple Advantage

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Re: The New Apple Advantage

#51

Post by whatusername »

CamperBob wrote: post #35
ShirtlessRod wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the comparison you want to be using here? Panera versus McDonalds, where Apple is McDonalds? Seems more like an insult.

Not if you look at their balance sheets, it isn't. McDonalds is one hell of a highly optimized operation, and nobody in business would object to being compared to them. Meanwhile, Panera's food is probably less healthy if you actually look at the numbers.

Everyone can make a better/tastier/nicer hamburger than McDonalds. No-one can make a more profitable hamburger than McDonalds.

That ties in pretty well to Tim Cook.

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#52

Post by socratic »

ugh wrote: post #49
socratic wrote: post #47

Gruber's argument confuses me: 1. Steve Jobs, the only CEO to ever successfully lead Apple in the company's 25-year history, has resigned. 2. Because of the current popularity of the iPad, iPhone, and MacBooks, Apple has great economies of scale. (However, Gruber primarily gives us anecdotes to support this.) 3. These economies of scale are evidence that the new CEO, an operations guy, will be able to lead the compan…

You are reading way too much into it. This article is not trying to make the argument that Steve Jobs was irrelevant or less important for Apple than Tim Cook.

"But at this point, it seems clear to me that however superior Apple's design is, it's their business and operations strength — the Cook side of the equation — that is furthest ahead of their competition, and the more sustainable advantage."

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#53

Post by jellicle »

What I grasp from this is that John Gruber and Peter Bright are just too dim to understand basic online stores.

This qualifies for mockery from Gruber/Bright:

> "Everyday Computing"

But this is good understandable product description:

> "The ultimate everyday notebook"

(that second one is Apple's marketing copy for the Macbook Air).

The low-end Macbook Air is $999 in Canada. Let's compare. I just priced a Lenovo X220 with a 50% faster processor, twice the ram, twice the SSD size, larger, better screen - which are all minimum choices for this laptop, I can't choose any lower to match the Macbook - and I came out to $84 more than the Macbook. Let's see, if I look at the other versions... I'd say the Macbook has about a $200-$300 price premium compared to the Lenovo. The two laptops weigh almost exactly the same and are the same thickness at the thickest point, although the Lenovo doesn't have the pretty tapered edge.

The economy of scale advantage that he's talking about doesn't exist, or at least doesn't make it to the consumer (Apple may be keeping economy of scale profits, but that's not the point Gruber is trying to make).

Gruber is just utterly full of shit and I fail to see why his articles merit any discussion. "Apple is great because [make up bullshit reason of the week]". Isn't that boring? Even if you love Apple products, isn't it boring?

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#54

Post by dasil003 »

jellicle wrote: post #53

What I grasp from this is that John Gruber and Peter Bright are just too dim to understand basic online stores. This qualifies for mockery from Gruber/Bright: > "Everyday Computing" But this is good understandable product description: > "The ultimate everyday notebook" (that second one is Apple's marketing copy for the Macbook Air). The low-end Macbook Air is $999 in Canada. Let's compare. I just priced a Lenovo X220…

The critique of "Everyday Computing" is as a search option next to a bunch of other abstract phrases, not marketing copy per se.

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#55

Post by ugh »

jellicle wrote: post #53

What I grasp from this is that John Gruber and Peter Bright are just too dim to understand basic online stores. This qualifies for mockery from Gruber/Bright: > "Everyday Computing" But this is good understandable product description: > "The ultimate everyday notebook" (that second one is Apple's marketing copy for the Macbook Air). The low-end Macbook Air is $999 in Canada. Let's compare. I just priced a Lenovo X220…

So, you really wanna claim that Apple has an equally confusing product lineup compared to other manufactures? That’s a quite daring claim (and also some impressive misleading quoting you are doing there).

Apple doesn’t ask you to decide based on non-sensical marketing blabber like that. They use it, sure, but it isn’t central in the decision process of the buyer.

Go to their store and check out how they do it: http://store.apple.com/us

If you want a laptop you are asked to make only one decision: Do you want a MacBook Pro or Air? Finding out what those two laptops are all about is easy, if only because it’s only two and not four or more. They are also clearly different from each other, in a way that’s obvious even to someone who doesn’t know anything or doesn’t want to know anything about technological details. Just looking at them is more or less enough to figure out what they are all about.

When you have made that decision, you more or less only have to decide on the screen size you would like: 11" or 13" if you want an Air, 13", 15" or 17" if you want a Pro.

I would love it if other manufacturers did the same. Shopping for PCs is just so damn frustrating. It’s no fun at all.

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#56

Post by ctdonath »

microarchitect wrote: post #7
jballanc wrote: post #2

There's a story that I've heard told about Tim Cook numerous times. I can't remember the original source (there's a reference here: http://www.cultofmac.com/who-is-apples-new-ceo-tim-cook-bio/... ), but I think it basically sums up Tim: > When in a meeting discussing a problem in China, Tim Cook noted that the problem was “really bad” and that someone should be in China fixing it. Thirty minutes later, Cook then famo…

I understand these things are partly symbolic, but besides that is this really useful? I mean, is there a real business benefit to Apple by making Khan take the next immediate flight to China rather than the one a few hours later. Similarly, what was your friend doing that was so important that he couldn't wait to get a change of clothes? I personally do my best work when I'm relaxed and un-stressed. The apple enviro…

My wife worked for a major consulting company. I came to understand that their major selling point was the ability to put a warm willing capable body anywhere anytime for any job, and for this they commanded a high price. For this, her work demanded such rapid response as the above tales note: one morning she was informed she would be at the client location, a thousand miles away, by that afternoon - and would work there 12 hour days four days a week for months. She had hardly time to pack a small bag before the flight.

Some thrive under such pressures, where most would soon crumble.

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#57

Post by socratic »

jellicle wrote: post #53

What I grasp from this is that John Gruber and Peter Bright are just too dim to understand basic online stores. This qualifies for mockery from Gruber/Bright: > "Everyday Computing" But this is good understandable product description: > "The ultimate everyday notebook" (that second one is Apple's marketing copy for the Macbook Air). The low-end Macbook Air is $999 in Canada. Let's compare. I just priced a Lenovo X220…

I tried to make this point below in a more subtle way, but you take on the issue more directly.

Gruber's arguments never make any sense. Historically, he changes his opinions more or less based on what Apple is currently doing. He adds little value, and it seems clear that he's making a lot of money as a pro-Apple cheerleader from his blog posts. (Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make him a good news source.)

However, I'm not sure how to get rid of Gruber posts. With certain types of posts, HN can feel like an Eternal September.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Certainly the first few times I read a Gruber post, I thought there was some legitimate content there. But now, his posts feel largely like regurgitated commentary on discussions had elsewhere, and his opinions feel utterly discredited by their uniformity.

Without downvotes, and without flags removing Gruber posts, I'm not sure what we can do. Could we possibly, as a community, just agree that a blacklist of Gruber posts is good for us? How would we begin such a discussion?

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#58

Post by dasil003 »

felipemnoa wrote: post #43
mechanical_fish wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have we forgotten the Newton? The Newton had issues, but lack of daring design innovation wasn't one of them. Now that Palm has boomed and iPads and iPhones are everywhere, it's difficult to appreciate how crazy the Newton was at the time. People didn't know that mobile book-sized computers were the future. The Newton was a bit too futuristic, too ambitious for its own hardware. Apple also tried a bunch of things in…

OK, so if a Formula 1 driver wins the race, who gets the credit? The car or the driver? I would say the car is Tim Cook and Steve jobs is the driver.

That's a terrible analogy. There is not just one person making human decisions in Apple. Jobs deserves a lot of credit, but there are hundreds (if not thousands) of people doing the critical design work that make Apple products great. It's easy to sit on the outside and imagine that Apple doesn't have a decision-maker to equal Jobs, but only time will tell.

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#59

Post by rumpelstiltskin »

socratic wrote: post #57
jellicle wrote: post #53

What I grasp from this is that John Gruber and Peter Bright are just too dim to understand basic online stores. This qualifies for mockery from Gruber/Bright: > "Everyday Computing" But this is good understandable product description: > "The ultimate everyday notebook" (that second one is Apple's marketing copy for the Macbook Air). The low-end Macbook Air is $999 in Canada. Let's compare. I just priced a Lenovo X220…

I tried to make this point below in a more subtle way, but you take on the issue more directly. Gruber's arguments never make any sense. Historically, he changes his opinions more or less based on what Apple is currently doing. He adds little value, and it seems clear that he's making a lot of money as a pro-Apple cheerleader from his blog posts. (Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make him a good news…

Sites can definitely be blacklisted (Valleywag, for ex). There's nothing in the HN FAQ about how to go about submitting a site for blacklisting though.

For the record, I'm all for blacklisting daringfireball.

Re: The New Apple Advantage

#60

Post by dasil003 »

socratic wrote: post #57
jellicle wrote: post #53

What I grasp from this is that John Gruber and Peter Bright are just too dim to understand basic online stores. This qualifies for mockery from Gruber/Bright: > "Everyday Computing" But this is good understandable product description: > "The ultimate everyday notebook" (that second one is Apple's marketing copy for the Macbook Air). The low-end Macbook Air is $999 in Canada. Let's compare. I just priced a Lenovo X220…

I tried to make this point below in a more subtle way, but you take on the issue more directly. Gruber's arguments never make any sense. Historically, he changes his opinions more or less based on what Apple is currently doing. He adds little value, and it seems clear that he's making a lot of money as a pro-Apple cheerleader from his blog posts. (Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make him a good news…

Nobody said Gruber wasn't biased, but he forms cogent arguments. The same can not be said for Apple's consistent detractors who seem to have a real chip on their shoulder and thus end up grasping at straws.

Granted there is a lot of valid Apple criticism that you won't get from Daring Fireball, but everyone has their viewpoint. Gruber is far from the worst stuff that shows up on HN.

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