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Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

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Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#21

Post by heavyset_go »

mrtksn wrote: post #10
mjevans wrote: post #3

Would Apple be a monopoly if they did enter the 'search' business? Google at least can leave Android free, and people that ship it able to customize as well as customers able to switch search providers. Apple would have a very vertically integrated stack, and would they allow anyone else making a phone equal access?

Apple is a monopoly in tech just like Louis Vuitton is a monopoly in luggage, so no. Okay, maybe for US it's Samsonite but for the rest of the world Apple is more like Louis Vuitton - a premium brand that is one of the leaders in design that everyone else follows. Just being popular in some circles doesn't change the fact that they hold a minority share in the market. Maybe people in Orange County might believe that…

Apple has 60% of the mobile market in the US[1], and more than double the revenue from their dominant stake in the mobile app distribution market than Google[2], both off which make up over 99% of that market.

Also, our layman definitions of monopoly do not matter when it comes to antitrust laws[3]:

> Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power.

[1] https://www.pcmag.com/news/ios-more-popular-in-japan-and-us-...

[2] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/

[3] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#22

Post by littlecranky67 »

dpark wrote: post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

> "Google pays Apple to be the default search provider"

If that is the case they might not act anti-competetive but, rumours are [0] Apple received up to $20Bn per year in this deal. It is hard to believe that this payment is just for being the default search engine. I strongly suspect that Apple also agrees to not build their own search engine as long as this deal is on - and if that is the case, there will be a strong foundation for an anti-competetive lawsuit.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#23

Post by teekert »

mjevans wrote: post #3

Would Apple be a monopoly if they did enter the 'search' business? Google at least can leave Android free, and people that ship it able to customize as well as customers able to switch search providers. Apple would have a very vertically integrated stack, and would they allow anyone else making a phone equal access?

As long as I can choose DDG and that will be the end of Apple Search on my iDevice, I don't see the problem.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#24

Post by Lio »

dpark wrote: post #17

”The complaint claims that the means used to effectuate the non-compete agreement included; (1) Google would share it's search profits with Apple; (2) Apple would give preferential treatment to Google for all Apple devices; (3) regular secret meetings between the executives of both companies; (4) annual multi-billion-dollar payments by Google to Apple not to compete in the search business; (5) suppression of the comp…

#5 is the key point to my mind.

For example, you can’t just add new search engines to iOS Safari with just a URL.

There are a few alternatives to Google but there’s no easy way for a new entrant to get in there.

EDIT: Interesting. I’m picking up downvotes for this, is there some way to achieve this (other than jailbreaking) I’ve missed?

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#26

Post by littlecranky67 »

laumars wrote: post #12
mrtksn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a monopoly in tech just like Louis Vuitton is a monopoly in luggage, so no. Okay, maybe for US it's Samsonite but for the rest of the world Apple is more like Louis Vuitton - a premium brand that is one of the leaders in design that everyone else follows. Just being popular in some circles doesn't change the fact that they hold a minority share in the market. Maybe people in Orange County might believe that…

Except there is already precedence regarding their App Store. So if Apple defaulted to their own search engine and didn’t allow a way of changing that default then the courts might well find that anti-competitive too.

You don't need to disallow changing the default search engine because the average user doesn't even know or bother how to change it. That is the reason Google pays everyone (Apple, Mozilla, Android OEMs through GService allowance) a buttload of money to be the default.

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#29

Post by littlecranky67 »

teekert wrote: post #23
mjevans wrote: post #3

Would Apple be a monopoly if they did enter the 'search' business? Google at least can leave Android free, and people that ship it able to customize as well as customers able to switch search providers. Apple would have a very vertically integrated stack, and would they allow anyone else making a phone equal access?

As long as I can choose DDG and that will be the end of Apple Search on my iDevice, I don't see the problem.

DDG+Apple user here, in the past days there were several threads on poor/SEO-spammed search results on Google and DDG. Unfortunately DDG is not really better in avoiding SEO spam than Google, so another competitor (even if its Apple) might be beneficial to everyone. Especially since google does not really have broad competition. Another poster correctly commented on why Google's results have become so bad: "Google is not making money by presenting you with the best result, it is making money by keeping you searching".

Re: Lawsuit filed alleging Google is paying Apple to stay out of the search business

#30

Post by mrtksn »

heavyset_go wrote: post #21
mrtksn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a monopoly in tech just like Louis Vuitton is a monopoly in luggage, so no. Okay, maybe for US it's Samsonite but for the rest of the world Apple is more like Louis Vuitton - a premium brand that is one of the leaders in design that everyone else follows. Just being popular in some circles doesn't change the fact that they hold a minority share in the market. Maybe people in Orange County might believe that…

Apple has 60% of the mobile market in the US[1], and more than double the revenue from their dominant stake in the mobile app distribution market than Google[2], both off which make up over 99% of that market. Also, our layman definitions of monopoly do not matter when it comes to antitrust laws[3]: > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthan…

As we are not in a court in here, only the laymen opinion is relevant as it is impossible to make a strict legal discussion without having a strict legal process.

I would say, Apple is very popular in the US but I don't see how it can be a monopoly when you can just order another device from Amazon and that device being just good or maybe better. In many other rich countries, people are choosing Samsung, Americans can do that too if they want.

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