Elizabeth Holmes found guilty • Hacker News Board

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#851

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

anthony_romeo wrote: post #818

biztos wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She only pauses in her work to run — seven miles a day. -- Laura Arrillaga-Andreessen, yes that Andreessen, writing in the New York Times Magazine about Visionary Tech Entrepreneurs with, um, no conflict of interest whatsoever I'm sure. Turns out Palantir's Alex Karp was also "harnessing goodness through technology." No idea how she missed Adam Neumann. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/12/t-magazine/el..…

I think you ought to actually explain the conflict of interest. I'm trying to find a clear connection between Theranos and Andreessen-related investments. I can't find evidence of an actual investment in Theranos. I'm not trying to dismiss you -- your theory[^1] could very well be totally right and there truly was a conflict [my duck-duck-go-ing skills only go so far]. And yeah, perhaps a person married to a wealthy…

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#852

Post by biztos » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #812

biztos wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article hypes five founders, one definitely was funded by A16Z, the others I think were not but I'm not sure. I don't know anything about the Andreessens' personal investments but just as a general rule you might question the propriety of someone that close to the VC money using your storied newspaper to promote startup founders. I'm not going to hold up the NYT as some bastion of journalistic ethics, but still.…

Hyping founders you _didn't_ invest in is sort of the opposite of nepotism though.

I disagree. It's a small VC world. I'm not going to assume the author was rooting for the failure of the other four operations. One of them even was interviewed on the A16Z podcast later (the one who tragically died). If you had a graph of all the people who contributed to Palantir's success and all the ones who have made money for A16Z, I bet you'd see a lot of overlap.

Consider I have five artists in my collection, and I write an article about five artists but four of them are not in my collection. If I were to write about only the five in my collection, I might be called on it. By writing about the others I'm making it seem like the one in my collection just belongs in the group; and maybe the group will elevate my artist by association.

I might actually like all five of the artists I write about! They might be true visionaries and altruists besides! They might paint all the time except when they are running!

(Actually this kind of thing happens all the time in the art world, which makes my analogy a little depressing when I think about it...)

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#853

Post by avgcorrection » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #834

1cvmask wrote: post #814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kissinger is known for his war crimes and Nobel Peace Prize. Being associated with this fraud is not a stain on his reputation at all. They joined because they thought they were going to make a lot of money. Kissinger also has the fame of being the first Nobel Peace Prize recipient to bomb another Nobel Peace Prize recipient: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doctors-without-borders-bombi... More on Kissinger war crimes…

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying his brutal play of realpolitik game or any of his awful failures. (Also the Nobel Peace Prize has become pretty meaningless. I usually wonder what skeletons will come out of the closets of any recipients--Hitchens had some bad things to say about Mother Teressa too.) I'm talking about his name recognition, and most importantly his influence & connections . I'm sure he'd rather be r…

“Brutal play of realpolitik game” as if committing war crimes is some kind of tough-nailed, pragmatic style of leadership.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#854

Post by SauciestGNU » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

darksaints wrote: post #838

ineedasername wrote: post #792

Ironic that her board of directors-- one of the most praised aspects of Theranos-- probably hurt her when it came to going after her with criminal charges. These were some of the most well-connected people in the country, and making them look like fools did her no favors. Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution. (which I think she deserved anyway.) Espe…

> I doubt Kissinger or the people around him want the last of his legacy to be punctuated by Theranos. I doubt the world's most notorious unprosecuted war criminal would have his reputation tarnished by advising a fraudster.

His legacy is millions murdered directly through his actions. Theranos isn't enough to put a scratch in the veneer of his mass murderous legacy.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#855

Post by anamax » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #829

anthony_romeo wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you ought to actually explain the conflict of interest. I'm trying to find a clear connection between Theranos and Andreessen-related investments. I can't find evidence of an actual investment in Theranos. I'm not trying to dismiss you -- your theory[^1] could very well be totally right and there truly was a conflict [my duck-duck-go-ing skills only go so far]. And yeah, perhaps a person married to a wealthy…

I don't think there's a literal "conflict of interest" but there's definitely a "protect your friends" thing going on. Laura is from the rich Stanford/Menlo Park VC/Palo Alto crowd, and that's Holmes' base of support as well.

> Laura is from the rich Stanford/Menlo Park VC/Palo Alto crowd, and that's Holmes' base of support as well.

What support did Holmes have in SV?

Yes, Draper put in some early money and Ellison put in some money, but the vast majority of Theranos' money seems to have come from outside the valley. (Yes, George Schultz lives in SV, but he's part of the SV investor "scene.")

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#856

Post by id02009 » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 5:01 PM UTC

bb101 wrote: post #786

ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

I do feel sorry for her in a way. She was riding a treadmill of expectations. Started off slowly, probably thinking "yeah, we can do this" and by the time the treadmill was moving at light speed, it was too late to get off. Even TED has removed her talk from YouTube. What responsibility do the media bear when their shallow hype turns out to be false and damaging to all parties?

IIUC she'd fire anyone who'd challenge the hype or raise issues in the company. Not sure why you'd feel bad for her.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#857

Post by kyleblarson » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

I hadn't followed Theranos much until the trial but listened to the American Scandal podcast about it. I find the narration to be a bit cheesy but it was pretty informative for just a few hours of listening while exercising: https://podcasts.apple.com/my/podcast/theranos-startup/id143...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#858

Post by nemo44x » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

pcbro141 wrote: post #534

nemo44x wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our justice system works well. You are confusing your own emotional feelings for what you would have liked to see with the reality of what was able to be proven without reasonable doubt. The type of populist mob justice you allude* to is not just at all. *(Fixed grammar error specified below)

Our justice system is terrible. Look at the huge racist disparities like 5-10x rate of incarceration of Black people for weed, even though Whites use weed at similar rates. Then the for profit prisons, ridiculously high sentences, appalling prison conditions, and mass incarceration of 21% of the world's prison population.

No one goes to prison for using weed. You go to prison for trafficking it.

Our prison population reflects our crime rate demographics. Certain demographics commit far more crime, especially violent crime, than other demographics. They are represented accordingly in our prisons.

Justice is pretty fair and blind across the board. Do the crime then do the time.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#859

Post by rozap » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

sharkweek wrote: post #76

dooglius wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "authentic" mean here? Isn't company swag just the company emailing a logo to 3rd parties who print it on shirts/whatever?

I try my best to only procure swag that was actually distributed by the company at time of operation. As an example, you can buy "joke" Enron t-shirts, which I wouldn't be interested in, but some authentic team building event-specific shirt distributed to 50ish people? Oh baby, I'm all ears. I think that's part of the fun, hunting for the original stuff.

Other people have commented, but I'd also enjoy a post or album of your most prized dead company swag artifacts.

I worked for a "hot" a16z startup just out of college, with a trendy office and the :rocket: :moon: vibe. They went under a few years after I bailed, but I still wear the t-shirt because it makes me chuckle.

In a strange twist of fate, I decided to exercise my few options, and I had to mail my stock exercise notice to some place with a check for ~$2500 to purchase them. USPS lost the letter and saved me $2500.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#860

Post by ineedasername » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

darksaints wrote: post #838

ineedasername wrote: post #792

Ironic that her board of directors-- one of the most praised aspects of Theranos-- probably hurt her when it came to going after her with criminal charges. These were some of the most well-connected people in the country, and making them look like fools did her no favors. Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution. (which I think she deserved anyway.) Espe…

> I doubt Kissinger or the people around him want the last of his legacy to be punctuated by Theranos. I doubt the world's most notorious unprosecuted war criminal would have his reputation tarnished by advising a fraudster.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who think well of him. I don't happen to be one of them, but not everyone views his actions through the same lens. Also his de-escalation of tensions with the Soviet Union overshadows a lot of the other stuff for many people. He was a horrifically adept player of the realpolitik game, and for some people the awful acts that came with that game are just the necessary costs.