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High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#231

Post by jdavis703 »

biztos wrote: post #216
xyzzyz wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is expensive precisely because it’s not profitable. Imagine if you were a builder, selling artisanal houses built without use of any power tools, only with organic manual labor, using materials prepared with organic manual labor only. You’d be building one deck in the same time it takes normal builders to build an entire house. The only way you could make a living this way would be if you charged multiples of what…

> I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg It looks like Whole Foods charges about half that for fancy organic eggs. However, if you sold them at the Ferry Building in San Francisco and had a good story about why your eggs were special, I think you could get $12 a dozen. How many of us are going to balk at $1/egg after we just paid $5 for an espresso and are ogling the $50 bottles of olive oil? Especially if we've…

Exactly, scrambled eggs or an omelette at a restaurant easily costs more than $1/egg. Obviously restaurants have all other costs. But in the grand scheme of things, if you’re living in an expensive place like NYC or SF, it doesn’t seem like that much.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#232

Post by jdavis703 »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #194
Gustomaximus wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At our property (small cattle farm) we rely on neighbours for the most part to get away. Pre-holiday you prep everything and someone will drop by ever day or few and throw some food and generally check on livestock. If going away for a longer period often people find a house sitter. But 100% it does take over life vs 'enjoying the view' type view of the lifestyle. Busy as it is I find it amazing. Something wholesome…

Covid reminded me how privileged I am to live where we do. While I'm reading stories about people in big cities confined to their cramped apartments, my life was actually improving. With lockdown and WFH, I didn't need to commute into the office every day and when I did travel, the roads were almost empty. Rush hour was surreal! If I got bored, I could go for a walk and not run into a single other person. And with ev…

What? Where were you? Some of my favorite parks in the rural parts of the Bay Area were destroyed by all the extra visitors. Not too mention urban parks were more crowded: since clubs and bars were shut people would bring their alcohol, drugs and sound systems to the park to socialize.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#233

Post by biztos »

cupcake-unicorn wrote: post #210

Just going to leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Hq8eVOMHs

Just going to leave this description here too:

12-minute Anti-Omnivore propaganda video with some cutesy "animations" and climate change as the reason we should all be vegans, oh and also shilling for some SkillShare class by the producer.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#234

Post by artificialLimbs »

seventytwo wrote: post #201
kurthr wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the government is actively killing it... they just aren't doing anything about the oligopolies and collusion that have always developed in these sort of situations. That may seem subtle, but many argue that we want to make the government do less to "keep them off our backs". Well, guess what these are the consequences. These markets may be "free", but they are not efficient, in fact they are arguably cor…

The voters have the power to curtail influence of big ag and other corporate oligarchies, but that requires not being afraid of voting for leftist ideas like class consciousness, unions, and stronger government regulation on big businesses.

Can you show me some examples of leftist ideas helping small businesses by regulating big businesses?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#235

Post by tsimionescu »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #227
tsimionescu wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicken meat and hen meat are different things. Big stores very rarely sell hen (or rooster) meat, normally only the meat of young, immature chicks is consumed, free-range or not. This is like the difference between veal and beef. The younger animal has softer meat and a different kind of fat.

Yes, that's right. But there's still a world of difference between a young chicken raised in a cage and the ones in our back yard. Honestly? I don't exactly understand why but the intuitive explanation is that animals that are allowed to roam and browse free are ... more healthy?

Sure, I wasn't meaning to imply that there is no other difference, just that it's not fair to compare the meat of a mature hen (which is always going to be stringier) with "regular" chicken meat, which is harvested from non-adult birds.

Comparing free range animals with cage grown ones, the most obvious difference is going to be muscle development: animals that grow up in cages will never have much muscle mass, since they simply have no way to exercise - they will have weaker muscles, and this will be detectable as a different taste and texture. Similarly, fat deposits will often be in different places and of slightly different kinds for animals that can exercise vs those that can't.

Additionally, cage grown animals are typically also fed a cheaper diet, and the diet will always have an impact on the taste of the meat.

And yes, the cage grown animals will likely also have different health issues because of the lack of exercise and poor diet, that free range animals won't develop. But I believe the other factors will have a much bigger impact, especially since these animals are typically harvested while they are pretty young, and may not have developed too serious conditions.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#236

Post by AndrewUnmuted »

bee_rider wrote: post #67
voakbasda wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely correct. It all starts with better nutrition. CAFO cows that end up at the supermarket are fed low-quality grains and feedstocks, rather than grass that they were evolved to eat. The difference between grain and grass fed beef is amazing. USDA processing is a complete farce. I can only sell locally, because I am not willing to send my animals to such facilities. Instead, I can only sell here in my…

Any thoughts on Mobile Slaughter Units? Your focus on being less cruel to your cows is pretty admirable, but I don't really see how average consumers could evaluate whether their local farm is: * Putting in the sort of extra effort that you are * Following safety protocols more generally I dunno. I'm not super attached to meat, so I'd probably quit eating it before putting in the effort to eat it ethically. Actually…

The way to do it is to meet the farmer.

We had a nice hour long walk & talk with the farmer we went with here in middle TN. He gave us $50 worth of free samples at the end and checked in with us a few times to see if we were able to get a good meal out of the sample meat.

We saw his process, we met the cows and saw first-hand how he cared for them. We also saw that he cared - he cared a lot.

When you think about it, this is the stuff you're going to feed your family. We put in a lot of effort when buying a car but not when buying our food. It's amazing what a little effort and thought can get you out here though, in "the sticks."

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#237

Post by cheese_goddess »

markdown wrote: post #154
knuthsat wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, first video I open is of castrating piglets. Can't believe it's done while the animal is awake and with no sedatives. Brutal. I'd rather have a farm raising plants than do that kind of stuff.

> I'd rather have a farm raising plants than do that kind of stuff. I can understand that if you're vegetarian. If you eat meat though, what goes on in this farm is what you'd you'd want for the food you eat. BTW there is a good reason these animals get castrated, which is far more than we can say for all the millions of human babies that have the ends of their dicks chopped off in the US every year.

I genuinely cannot tell whether you're outraging about circumcision or about trans kids having surgeries. "Ends of their dicks chopped off"? wa?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#238

Post by the_only_law »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #237
markdown wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather have a farm raising plants than do that kind of stuff. I can understand that if you're vegetarian. If you eat meat though, what goes on in this farm is what you'd you'd want for the food you eat. BTW there is a good reason these animals get castrated, which is far more than we can say for all the millions of human babies that have the ends of their dicks chopped off in the US every year.

I genuinely cannot tell whether you're outraging about circumcision or about trans kids having surgeries. "Ends of their dicks chopped off"? wa?

Given they’re specifically talking about babies, and the volume they mention, I think it’s safe to assume the former.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#239

Post by xyzzyz »

biztos wrote: post #216
xyzzyz wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is expensive precisely because it’s not profitable. Imagine if you were a builder, selling artisanal houses built without use of any power tools, only with organic manual labor, using materials prepared with organic manual labor only. You’d be building one deck in the same time it takes normal builders to build an entire house. The only way you could make a living this way would be if you charged multiples of what…

> I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg It looks like Whole Foods charges about half that for fancy organic eggs. However, if you sold them at the Ferry Building in San Francisco and had a good story about why your eggs were special, I think you could get $12 a dozen. How many of us are going to balk at $1/egg after we just paid $5 for an espresso and are ogling the $50 bottles of olive oil? Especially if we've…

The point here is that if Starbucks was buying as expensive coffee as are those organic $1 eggs, it would be $10-15 espresso. I’m happy to pay $1 for egg, if it comes with the rest of the breakfast in form of a sit down restaurant service. But paying $12 just for a carton of dozen eggs? No way.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#240

Post by xyzzyz »

jdavis703 wrote: post #231
biztos wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg It looks like Whole Foods charges about half that for fancy organic eggs. However, if you sold them at the Ferry Building in San Francisco and had a good story about why your eggs were special, I think you could get $12 a dozen. How many of us are going to balk at $1/egg after we just paid $5 for an espresso and are ogling the $50 bottles of olive oil? Especially if we've…

Exactly, scrambled eggs or an omelette at a restaurant easily costs more than $1/egg. Obviously restaurants have all other costs. But in the grand scheme of things, if you’re living in an expensive place like NYC or SF, it doesn’t seem like that much.

How much would the restaurant breakfast cost, if the restaurant was buying $1 eggs and other similarly expensive ingredients?
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