High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching • Hacker News Board

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#221

Post by goostavos » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 6:47 AM UTC

voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

Are farms which sell directly to end consumers profitable at all? Like as a lifestyle business?

Last year I purchased a 1/4 beef directly from a local farm and, as a life long city dwelling techbro, found the whole experience awesome. As dumb as it is, I really liked feeling 'closer' to where my food came from. I know the farm, the people who run it, the age and hanging weight of the beef, where it was processed, and so on. I even like that you get everything, including the generally 'undesirable' cuts, because you're processing an entire cow. I haven't purchased beef from a store in almost a year at this point!

I've been enamored with it ever since. On the techbro side, I wonder if there's something more small farms can do "local beef as a service" wise. The process, at least with the farm I went through, was clunky and manual to say the least (especially when doing it for my first time).

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#222

Post by bobthepanda » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

adrr wrote: post #93

CreepGin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have opposite experiences with pork and poultry. The meat we get from local homesteads are noticeably way better than store bought. Maybe beef is a different story. I don't know... During 2020 summer, we raised 4 peking ducks in our backyard. We gifted some of the processed meat to extended family members. And to this day, they still can't stop talking about how good the meat were.

Poultry that is free range is more stringy and chewy. It also much leaner and smaller. I lived off free range chicken when i worked summers on my grandfather's farm in Hawaii. It is all personal preference. If you order chicken pho at a Vietnamese restaurant it will most likely be free range chicken or what they call "Walking chicken". It is completely different than a Tyson Chicken from Costco with oversized breast…

Chicken doesn't have to be free-range to be better than what Tyson et al. are producing.

White striping is a lot more prominent in factory farmed chicken.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#223

Post by goostavos » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 7:05 AM UTC

nickstinemates wrote: post #122

jdavis703 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all sounds pretty labor intensive to me. About how many hours per year do you think goes in to this? Like is this something that could be a weekend hobby? Or does it require more substantial lifestyle change?

Like anything - there's startup costs and then maintenance costs and a lot of it can be automated. But, tl;dr not much at all (10 mins/day for the bulk of the time) after infrastructure/a system is built. I'll give you a simple example with chickens. On average, we eat a whole chicken once per week. So to be 100% self sufficient, lets say we need to grow 50 chickens. A common cornish cross chicken goes from 0-5/6lbs…

For the "processing," did you learn from someone, watch youtube videos, just... figure it out?

How was the first time? After doing it for years, is it just mechanical to process them?

It sounds really rewarding, but getting over the initial hump of doing the processing yourself is a big unknown to me.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#224

Post by CreepGin » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 7:10 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #136

CreepGin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have opposite experiences with pork and poultry. The meat we get from local homesteads are noticeably way better than store bought. Maybe beef is a different story. I don't know... During 2020 summer, we raised 4 peking ducks in our backyard. We gifted some of the processed meat to extended family members. And to this day, they still can't stop talking about how good the meat were.

Is it possible that freshness and lack of freezing are the cause of any difference. (Also I assume local farms do not artificially plump chicken with fluids)

The ducks we raised were even better tasting than from other local homesteads. I think the trick was in the amount of organic peas and red wrigglers we fed them.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#225

Post by xd » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:23 AM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #72

xd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took on some caged hens (about 6months back now) that were off for slaughter to be turned into dog food. Straight away they took to the patch of land in my garden I gave them and laid eggs .. the eggs they lay are on another level to anything store bought. I can put a pan of water on boil over a stove; crack an egg into it and have a perfect poached egg 2-3mins later. They are creamy and rich as if they have life c…

> That said I wouldn't recommend keeping hens unless you've had exposure to them on some level other than visiting a farm. I recently bought a few acres in SE Texas and several people have recommend I raise chickens both for the eggs and also to help with some of the insects around here. Why don't you recommend it?

I didn't word that well, what I meant to say was get some exposure to chickens and a keeper who will give you the insights you need to understand what's required for happy chickens - even if that is a bunch of Youtube videos.

In Britain a lot of people rush out to get rescue hens and stick them in a rabbit run on their patio which is what I try to avoid encouraging.. being turned into dog food is a better outcome than the quality of life some chickens get.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#226

Post by kbart » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 9:33 AM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #203

e44858 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently see "nitrites" in the ingredients list, whose main purpose is to color the meat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite#Color_and_taste

They don’t add nitrites to raw meat, only to processed one. Nitrites is why your ham is pink instead of gray. But, more importantly than color, nitrites are added as a preservative, to avoid botulism.

Wasn't the claim that nitrites help against botulism denied few years ago? According to Guardian: "A bombshell internal report written for the British meat industry reveals nitrites do not protect against botulism"[0]

0. https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/mar/23/nitrites-ham-ba...

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#227

Post by cheese_goddess » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #153

cheese_goddess wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really free-range poultry (backyard chicken, rather than chicken grown in a factory with a tiny yard just enough to satisfy free range regulations) is like you say, tough, stringy, full of muscle, with normal-sized breasts and its meat is dark. It's no good for roasting because you really have to boil it for a couple of hours at least in order to get it to the point it's edible. I made the mistake once to only cook a…

Chicken meat and hen meat are different things. Big stores very rarely sell hen (or rooster) meat, normally only the meat of young, immature chicks is consumed, free-range or not. This is like the difference between veal and beef. The younger animal has softer meat and a different kind of fat.

Yes, that's right. But there's still a world of difference between a young chicken raised in a cage and the ones in our back yard.

Honestly? I don't exactly understand why but the intuitive explanation is that animals that are allowed to roam and browse free are ... more healthy?

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#228

Post by cheese_goddess » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 10:26 AM UTC

conradev wrote: post #149

cheese_goddess wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The milk is super creamy and if you boil it for 2-3 times, you get like 1-cm creamy foam on top. I tried the same with Costco whole milk, and didn't get as much cream/richness. That's probably because supermarket milk is typically homogenised, meaning it's been put through a very narrow funnel with great force until the fat globules break and become more evenly distributed throughout the milk. That's why supermarke…

and, thankfully, "cream on top" milk is now more available in US supermarkets brands like Straus are generally available on the west coast, not sure about other regions

That's good. Homoegenised milk is also no good for making homemade cheese :)

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#229

Post by brailsafe » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 11:38 AM UTC

shawn-butler wrote: post #121

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

Arguable. Non-feedlot raised animals do evidence some seasonality in the texture and flavor of the meat. The nutritional value of the meat produced / consumed may be chemically similar although there is some research to support the higher human health benefits (CLAs, Omega 3s,Omega 9s, etc.) of grass-fed beef, but it is the stewardship used to raise those animals has a vastly different impact on the environment. Can'…

> Really this is a failure of the educational system in the US. If people knew the facts, they would be supporting and buying from local producer-owned cooperatives.

This is an idealistic liberal fantasy that implies rather condescendingly that anyone who does otherwise is uneducated. I support my local grocery store in whatever way I can, but I buy what I can afford, try not to support slave labour if I know about it, but otherwise it's far more important to me that I cover my bases for energy, nutrition, and desire. Tailpipe emissions can be measured, and people avoid them all the time largely by not having cars or living near congestion, if they can afford to, because it makes the air gross. If the result of paying more for steak means mostly that it tastes a bit better and you feel morally superior, then an educated person of moderate means would choose the more reasoned choice compared to what it cost them. I don't think it's like the difference between literally inhaling from an exhaust pipe or breathing mountain air. I think it's more like pretentious juices that I see at my local mart. One is already expensive at $8 and is basically sugar, and the one labeled organic small-batch hand-squeezzed is $18 for the same size, and is basically sugar. Ya it might taste better, idk, but I sure as hell am not paying $18 for a jar of juice.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#230

Post by belorn » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 12:12 PM UTC

xu3u32 wrote: post #14

voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

I am someone who usually gets their beef from costco, small middle eastern markets and sometimes when its on sale at the neighborhood grocery store (Publix). Would you mind sharing in what ways what I'm consuming is trash compared to what comes from small farms?

To take ground beef as an example, when I put typical store bought beef in the pan there will be a lot of liquid forming and boiling. Ground beef from small farms tend to need a bit more butter as it has much less water content in it. It not uncommon to hear cooks that always ground their own beef in order to control water and fat content.