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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#461

Post by zeusk »

hooande wrote: post #444
nerevarthelame wrote: post #441

Here's the earliest HN submission I could find on Theranos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349 I don't really blame folks for not calling it out as a fraud at that point, given how little information we had. There were, for what it's worth, a number of people who complained about the ambiguity of the website. But many were convinced that the illustrious board must mean good results. Well done to medman77 wh…

this old thread is so hn. lots of discussion about famous names on the board, mentions of threats to privacy and discussion of the website ui. medman77 did crush it with actual technical analysis, among others. now I want to go back and see what hn said about other famous companies

I find it odd/funny that it was the only comment from his account since 2013

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#462

Post by justinator »

kragen wrote: post #396
justinator wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they also reverse engineered a lot of the third party machines, in an attempt to make them work the way they wanted to. That's... that's bad.

Reverse engineering is an important right that is protected by centuries of patent and trade secret law in the US and many other countries. It's fundamental to innovation, even though non-innovative bad people like Theranos also do it. Reverse engineering is not bad, and it is dismaying that someone posting on a site called "Hacker News" would think so.

Reverse engineering is not bad, and it is dismaying that someone posting on a site called "Hacker News" would think so.

Personal attacks aside,

I'm just saying that if I get a blood test and it says I've got AIDS and I actually don't -

and that's all because some sociopath grifter with less of an education than what's been proven with my own Bachelors of Fine Arts realized that to swindle millions of more dollars from her geriatric backers she's been manipulating (and ruining the lives of their own family members),

she needs to fake the test results from an impossible dream machine that does NOT exist and couldn't ever - because it defies the laws of physics,

and does this by running modified machines of her competitors that are now basically broken,

in secret rooms she doesn't tell journalists or inspectors about,

well: that's truly fucked.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#464

Post by JimDabell »

MarcelOlsz wrote: post #458
hooande wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this old thread is so hn. lots of discussion about famous names on the board, mentions of threats to privacy and discussion of the website ui. medman77 did crush it with actual technical analysis, among others. now I want to go back and see what hn said about other famous companies

My favourite[0] is the dropbox post. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

I think it’s worth highlighting dang’s comment on that one – it’s not as bad as it seems: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27068148

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#465

Post by dragonwriter »

tptacek wrote: post #255
seehafer wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From former AUSA, and current white-collar defense attorney Ken White: "She faces a max of 65 years (3x20 + 1x5). And it's not at all clear she'll do less than 20." Apparently the sentences will not necessarily be served concurrently. https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1478170494130003976?s=20

Yeah, that's a surprising thing for him to say, since he's generally one of the loudest voices against this "add up the sentences" stuff. The grouping rules are in the sentencing guidelines too! Go look!

It's not surprising, because there's a very good argument that the guideline range for what she has been convicted of (and taking into account her conduct at trial, which is relevant) is life, with the actual sentence capped at the statutory maximum of the offenses stacked consecutively rather than concurrently.

Now, it's possible that the court wouldn't agree with that analysis and find slightly fewer points, or that it would agree but would make a downward departure, but...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#466

Post by kstrauser »

2YwaZHXV wrote: post #310
kstrauser wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people are having success with her ideas today Citation needed. The whole concept has a critical flaw, as pointed out by her engineering staff and medical advisors: blood tests require a certain minimum volume of blood to work, and that's inescapable because blood components are discrete, not continuous. For example, a drop of blood is about .05mL, or about 1/20th of a milliliter. A common testing sample size in a…

One thing that seems to be forgotten or lost in all of these armchair analyses is that while it is true that something like 3mL of blood is collected for a conventional lab test, the machine itself when it runs the test only takes a few microliters (maybe 10s of uL, all of this is depending on the test of course). The rest is frozen for follow-up or repeat testing or used for other tests or just discarded after some…

According to an article in Nature[1]:

> Holmes described the miniLab as “the most important thing humanity has ever built”. But at best, the lab could do immunoassays using microfluidics. The tiny blood sample had to be diluted extensively (for which there are no reference standards or precedents), leading to artefacts and spurious results.

That (and other reports) sound like they diluted way more than usual.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05149-2

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#467

Post by PKop »

mdoms wrote: post #340
metadat wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully she'll get more, SV could use a good example. Otherwise it signals that wantrepeneurs can keep doing it with minimal repercussions.

Ok I'm not American so perhaps my perspective is different... More than 10 years would be utterly barbaric. The 65 years mentioned in another comment chain would be well beyond the pale. I'm no fan of Holmes, but what good does it serve to lock up non violent criminals for decades?

deterrence and punishment. it was pretty barbaric of her to screw with people's health and blood no?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#468

Post by approxim8ion »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24
dbcooper wrote: post #4

More complete summary from the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/03/technology/elizabeth... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29789074

> Very little is known of Mr. Balwani, including why he is called “Sunny.” This might be because Saturday in Hindi and other Indian languages is “sunny-var”, and the day of the week you are born on is a common nickname, in conjunction with “sunny” being an easy to pronounce and common English word.

This is absolutely incorrect. Saturday is called "Shani"-var (pronounced shunny) after the name for the Hindu god of justice [1]. Hindus also map his presence to the planet Saturn. Either way, no relation to the name Sunny at all. Source: several Indian friends of ages 18-50.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shani

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#469

Post by HWR_14 »

mdoms wrote: post #340
metadat wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully she'll get more, SV could use a good example. Otherwise it signals that wantrepeneurs can keep doing it with minimal repercussions.

Ok I'm not American so perhaps my perspective is different... More than 10 years would be utterly barbaric. The 65 years mentioned in another comment chain would be well beyond the pale. I'm no fan of Holmes, but what good does it serve to lock up non violent criminals for decades?

> what good does it serve to lock up non violent criminals for decades?

If you're stealing hundreds of millions of dollars, is anything less than a decade really a deterrent? Especially since sophisticated actors are the most likely to be deterred by long prison sentences.

Heck, does it really do any good to lock up someone who comes home to find his wife cheating and kills her and her lover for 20-plus years? I would contend that locking up the white-collar criminal does more good.

But I'll take on your specific example. Any crazy rich people out there, I will serve 5 years in a minimum security Western European prison for 143MM USD safely accruing interest in accounts for when I get out.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#470

Post by sk5t »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #447
hooande wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this old thread is so hn. lots of discussion about famous names on the board, mentions of threats to privacy and discussion of the website ui. medman77 did crush it with actual technical analysis, among others. now I want to go back and see what hn said about other famous companies

I recall lots of doubt about Theranos from the beginning, especially due to the board composition.

There was also a lot of scientific doubt about Theranos based on what is actually physically present in a drop of capillary blood.
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