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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#441

Post by nerevarthelame »

Here's the earliest HN submission I could find on Theranos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349

I don't really blame folks for not calling it out as a fraud at that point, given how little information we had. There were, for what it's worth, a number of people who complained about the ambiguity of the website. But many were convinced that the illustrious board must mean good results.

Well done to medman77 who had the most direct rebuke: "The company is all hot air. They have a board full of retired military figure heads that have no experience in medical devices or retail services. Additionally, they do not have any products to show. Look at their patents. They are all very general and broad. There has been NO FDA CLEARANCE for anything they are doing, which raises legal questions. Speaking of legal, search for lawsuits they are involved in. Their core technology is not even theirs. They stole it from someone else."

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#442

Post by sundvor »

jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Well, they got Al Capone on tax evasion...

In my own mind, the test result fraud is far worse ethically - however as long as she is locked up, it still works.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#443

Post by dreamcompiler »

notch656a wrote: post #351
dreamcompiler wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not some random Western Union fly-by-night process. These are serious bank-to-bank transfers with plenty of documentation about who's who on both ends. That documentation is required not only by bank policy but by law (e.g. IRS and anti-terrorism laws). The fact that the wire transfers are highlighted so much in the charges is that they are interstate transactions, which makes them federal crimes rather than…

Refer to Wickard v Filburn. Whether a transaction leaves the state doesn't mean dick to interstate commerce clause. The interstate commerce is interpreted to mean basically any possession/production/consumption of goods regardless if they leave the state or even enter commerce. Supreme court decided even growing crops for use on animals on your own land is interstate commerce. This is the reason why you can catch a f…

Fair enough. But United States v Lopez weakened the Gun-Free School Zone Act a bit to require prosecutors to prove a link between the gun in question and interstate commerce.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#444

Post by hooande »

nerevarthelame wrote: post #441

Here's the earliest HN submission I could find on Theranos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349 I don't really blame folks for not calling it out as a fraud at that point, given how little information we had. There were, for what it's worth, a number of people who complained about the ambiguity of the website. But many were convinced that the illustrious board must mean good results. Well done to medman77 wh…

this old thread is so hn. lots of discussion about famous names on the board, mentions of threats to privacy and discussion of the website ui.

medman77 did crush it with actual technical analysis, among others. now I want to go back and see what hn said about other famous companies

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#445

Post by ericmay »

bpodgursky wrote: post #438
metadat wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully she'll get more, SV could use a good example. Otherwise it signals that wantrepeneurs can keep doing it with minimal repercussions.

Quoted post unavailable.

While I don’t share in the misanthropic sentiment of the OP, it’s difficult for me to not sit here and say well if you didn’t want to go to prison you shouldn’t have defrauded people and violated the law…

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#446

Post by jlduan »

jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

> It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results.

Not excusing it. But maybe the jurors think the doctors and/or insurance companies ordered/interpreted these tests have some responsibilities too?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#447

Post by lotsofpulp »

hooande wrote: post #444
nerevarthelame wrote: post #441

Here's the earliest HN submission I could find on Theranos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349 I don't really blame folks for not calling it out as a fraud at that point, given how little information we had. There were, for what it's worth, a number of people who complained about the ambiguity of the website. But many were convinced that the illustrious board must mean good results. Well done to medman77 wh…

this old thread is so hn. lots of discussion about famous names on the board, mentions of threats to privacy and discussion of the website ui. medman77 did crush it with actual technical analysis, among others. now I want to go back and see what hn said about other famous companies

I recall lots of doubt about Theranos from the beginning, especially due to the board composition.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#448

Post by nerdponx »

nerevarthelame wrote: post #441

Here's the earliest HN submission I could find on Theranos: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349349 I don't really blame folks for not calling it out as a fraud at that point, given how little information we had. There were, for what it's worth, a number of people who complained about the ambiguity of the website. But many were convinced that the illustrious board must mean good results. Well done to medman77 wh…

I enjoyed the comment by dlisboa:

> So, it's a health testing company that will keep all my blood-related health information and make it "actionable", with the backing of James Mattis, William Perry and none other than Henry Kissinger. There are more soldiers in that board there than doctors.

> The only way I'd give them my blood would be to infect them with a disease.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6349728

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#449

Post by hooande »

testplzignore wrote: post #191
tptacek wrote: post #78

Time to kibitz on the likely sentence! You can get the federal sentencing guidelines here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu... They're long and mostly not relevant except for the sections pertaining to Holmes conduct. Here's the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download Holmes was found guilty of one 18 USC 1349 charge, and 3 18 USC 1343 charges; the 1343's s…

Based on a very quick reading, I think the most serious offense (the $100M one) would at least land in the 97-121 months bucket. If she serves half of that, best case for her is 4 years. Not too bad.

people generally serve the majority of a federal sentence. serving 75% of sentenced time is much more common than 50%

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#450

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #24
dbcooper wrote: post #4

More complete summary from the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/03/technology/elizabeth... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29789074

> Very little is known of Mr. Balwani, including why he is called “Sunny.” This might be because Saturday in Hindi and other Indian languages is “sunny-var”, and the day of the week you are born on is a common nickname, in conjunction with “sunny” being an easy to pronounce and common English word.

[deleted]
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