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Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#351

Post by lucumo »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #227
lucumo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Whenever I see such things, it's usually because their interlocutor is boring. People aren't interesting just because they are people. In fact, most people are boring as hell. There is such a thing as manners, of course. But that's a two-way street. The other party also has to make an effort to not be boring, and that effort is rarely made either.

>>> The other party also has to make an effort not to be boring, and that effort is rarely made either. Would you please elaborate what you mean by this? I am familiar with how conversations work or at least how they used to... This looking at your phone and tuning out of a conversation seems to be somethin new and lacking as you said, manners.

It's just that demanding someone's attention without expending the effort to be interesting to them is quite rude as well. If someone's constantly on their phone while you're speaking to them, your conversation is clearly not very interesting to them so you should do better.

I find demanding someone's attention more rude than not giving attention that's requested. Someone's attention is theirs to give, not something for others to demand.

As for how conversations used to work... When people were boring or uninteresting people would zone out and just uh-hu away. Just smile and nod. It may give the other the illusion that they're not being ignored, but they are.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#352

Post by stjohnswarts »

tluyben2 wrote: post #7

Not a main factor but a factor is 'always the latest tech' issue. Most banks and airlines I use rewrote their perfectly fine and fast sites and apps to reactjs and now they seriously suck. This is not the fault of react but more of this idea of tech people that everything has to be new which means we don't have 10+ year experience in it and the results just take more work to get right (despite what everyone says here…

This happened to me recently :( . My community bank upgraded their interface (probably been basically the same for 10 years+) that they've been using just fine and moved EVERYTHING around with their new app and web interface that is made to look like their app. I was so angry I switched banks (which is easier than you think these days). I sent them a letter letting them know the same. It looked "better" but is was also slower, less organized, broke their API for downloading stuff to import to gnucash, etc. It's all just such a waste.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#353

Post by stjohnswarts »

kgeist wrote: post #66
tluyben2 wrote: post #7

Not a main factor but a factor is 'always the latest tech' issue. Most banks and airlines I use rewrote their perfectly fine and fast sites and apps to reactjs and now they seriously suck. This is not the fault of react but more of this idea of tech people that everything has to be new which means we don't have 10+ year experience in it and the results just take more work to get right (despite what everyone says here…

>Most banks and airlines I use rewrote their perfectly fine and fast sites and apps to reactjs and now they seriously suck. This is not the fault of react but more of this idea of tech people that everything has to be new. I doubt they rewrote it just for the sake of rewriting it in a new framework, it costs money for no benefit. What's more likely, which I have witnessed multiple times, is that the original codebase…

None of that matters to the customer if the new interface is completely different and much less functional. You should make sure there is an easy transition or you're going to lose a lot of business with your "improved interface".

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#354

Post by stjohnswarts »

iso1210 wrote: post #258
tluyben2 wrote: post #7

Not a main factor but a factor is 'always the latest tech' issue. Most banks and airlines I use rewrote their perfectly fine and fast sites and apps to reactjs and now they seriously suck. This is not the fault of react but more of this idea of tech people that everything has to be new which means we don't have 10+ year experience in it and the results just take more work to get right (despite what everyone says here…

I logged into British Gas yesterday to look at my account. It was painfully slow, wouldn't even load before I disabled ublock origin, and cpu shot up. All to output something along the lines of "select * from meter_readings where accountid = ?", $accountid "select * from bills where accountid = ?", $accountid In the end I never actually got what I wanted.

My water bill page is the most over designed thing I've ever seen :( . It takes over 30 seconds to load with all these obviously widget based sections of the page to load. All I want is to log in and see my bill. I don't need to see the community water usage, or my usage for the last 6 months, or the weather for the next three days. I just want to see my bill and pay it. Have a button I can click for further details and load the rest of their stuff if something seems off. I don't need a "single page web app" to do that stuff.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#355

Post by dools »

Freak_NL wrote: post #259
dools wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your government demands you own a smart phone?

You can of course function without one, but the nudging towards getting their authentication app is getting worse. For healthcare records, vendors in the Netherlands are required to move authentication of their portals to the government provided DigiD¹. Healthcare will be the first field where the minimum level of assurance is being raised to 'substantial', and this means that only authentication via the Android or I…

“ Because you do have a right to view your medical records, there is a fallback option which essentially means going to the healthcare provider and asking for paper records. This is behavioural nudging taken to the extreme.”

I think this just illustrates how much easier smart phones make things. If we didn’t have smart phones for example, all your interactions with the government would be as cumbersome and inconvenient as this fall back option.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#357

Post by dools »

Johnythree wrote: post #275
dools wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your government demands you own a smart phone?

For so many things. Need to scan a QR code to enter a building, or need to display Vaccine status. My bank now requires I run their mobile App to be able to log in, even if I'm on a PC. Most OTP authorisation requires you to receive an SMS code. Government departments are now only contactable via the Net, so a smart phone is the minimum unless you have a PC.

“For so many things. Need to scan a QR code to enter a building”

So there is a requirement to scan a QR code and there is no option to enter the building for people who don’t have a smart phone?

“or need to display Vaccine status.”

You can’t display your vaccine status without a smart phone?

“My bank now requires I run their mobile App to be able to log in, even if I'm on a PC.”

Is your bank run by the government?

“Most OTP authorisation requires you to receive an SMS code.”

SMS is available on any mobile phone, not just smart phones. Also many SMS OTP implementations include the option to receive a phone call.

“Government departments are now only contactable via the Net, so a smart phone is the minimum unless you have a PC.”

Okay so the government requires you have a computer and internet access, but not a smart phone.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#358

Post by TaylorAlexander »

5560675260 wrote: post #301
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting with your dollars does cede a lot of power to the wealthy, since they have most of the money and represent a small portion of the population.

I think you have it backwards. Wealthy already have all the power they need. Everyone else has zero power, unless they organise, pool their resources or at least choose to move in same direction independently.

It’s a matter of phrasing. We all have power available to us if only we organize. If we choose not to organize we are letting the wealthy have the power.

But anyway I agree with you that we need to organize. Voting with our dollars as atomic individuals works in limited ways but won’t change things on a large scale.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#359

Post by codeptualize »

Johnythree wrote: post #300
codeptualize wrote: post #169

I definitely agree some things have gotten quite bad, but at least for me there have been quite a lot of massive improvements. Banking is a good example, it has significantly improved for me; Instead of having to use one of those 2nd factor dedicated devices that require my card and pin code, I can now use my phone with the app as second factor, it's way more convenient as I don't have to go search for the device and…

For decades my bank used a hardware security device that I kept on my keychain. It worked flawlessly and I loved it. Recently they changed to an "App" to be able to use my account. The first I heard about it, I was overseas trying to get back during the Pandemic, and couldn't buy a plane ticket as SMS wouldn't work (apparently it was because I hadn't authorised "Roaming" before I left). Whatever, I did enjoy cancelli…

Fair enough, a security device that can be on your keychain does sound convenient. I use hardware security keys these days, probably a similar experience.

SMS does sound proper annoying, not only delays/roaming issues, but also because you probably still have to manually type over numbers.

For most thing I just need to scan a QR code, then type in a pin or use face id to confirm, very quick and easy. For big transactions I still need the device, and that's when I realize how annoying it really is haha.

Anyway, hope you have found a better bank!

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#360

Post by codeptualize »

ethbr0 wrote: post #141
r_singh wrote: post #14

I think the internet (and its tools) started off with the intention of making the lives of users easier as compared to the alternatives. However, as the internet became mainstream and competitive, more successful players realized that they can employ dark patterns to increase their revenue by taking advantage of users (lock-in, difficulty unsubscribing, making cloud accounts mandatory, etc). It's 2022 and I think all…

> growth at all and any cost This is 100% the root cause. Without exponential growth targets, almost all the ills mentioned wouldn't have been required. And specifically, without exponential growth targets for companies with market cap already above $1T . I'm convinced we'd be living in a better world if MAMAA would have said "Okay, our core business is mature. We're going to run it as a cash printing machine but wit…

I hate it so much, it happened so many times that a nice medium to large company with an absolute epic product gets many millions of funding and everything turns to crap in pursuing return on that insane investment. It's sad really.
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