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Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

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Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#71

The article was good, without the "Morons" at the end directed at Hangzhou Sage chemical company. It didn't need that, and it reeks a little of racism to pretend they're morons for working with FOOF, considering how much he lauded respect on Streng for doing so. The article already had good comic effect without needing to do it at someone else's expense whether it was racist or just cruel and dismissive.

Sometimes I wonder if China is still PO'd about the Opium Wars or something.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a great video on producing and testing that substance: https://youtu.be/-Sz4d7RQB6Y Interestingly, it's more stable than most online sources give it credit for

He doesn't address this, but some comments do: did he really get the pure molecule or was it some impure compound that made it less sensitive?

The large crystal size is a pretty sure bet it's pure. That recrystallization he showed was a thing of beauty.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#74
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't address this, but some comments do: did he really get the pure molecule or was it some impure compound that made it less sensitive?

The large crystal size is a pretty sure bet it's pure. That recrystallization he showed was a thing of beauty.

There is a comment addressing this and mentioning that (as far as I understood) there could be excess hydrate that is part of the natural crystallization process. Also he could get the reaction wrong and it's large crystals of a different molecule.

I just find it hard to believe that a renown lab specialzing in highly explosive compounds had this stuff explode when turning on the spectrometer, but he could hit it with a hammer.

I don't assume malice on either part, so the best explanation for me is that they were testing different things.

Given that he did it using a different synthesis using public shop grade starting materials in his garage and having no equipment to really verify his intermidiates and final compound it also seems likely. Also this is not addressed in the video. The video is popular/humorous science and not research afterall.

I'm actually a bit baffled that this video is taken at face value as disproving the labs original publication. But I also can't put the 1.5 Joule part in relation and a spectrometer creates more force than a soft hit from a hammer?

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#75
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large crystal size is a pretty sure bet it's pure. That recrystallization he showed was a thing of beauty.

There is a comment addressing this and mentioning that (as far as I understood) there could be excess hydrate that is part of the natural crystallization process. Also he could get the reaction wrong and it's large crystals of a different molecule. I just find it hard to believe that a renown lab specialzing in highly explosive compounds had this stuff explode when turning on the spectrometer, but he could hit it wit…

He addresses the disproval part: he didn't disprove their paper. He stated that just because it's below their threshold for sensitively doesn't mean it's super ultra mega sensitive, it just means that it's highly sensitive. 1.5 Joules is more than you think: a hammer tap could easily be less than that (lift a 100g weight a 1.5 meters off the floor: that's 1.5J of potential energy), however, as he puts it, that's still "sensitive as dicks". As for it blowing up in the mass spectrometer, that can happen if it started to decompose over time, accidental friction, accidental x-ray activation, too much in one spot, etc. I'm sure if he worked with the substance more than once or twice it's possible he'd have a random detonation or two. The paper and this video easily exist cooperatively rather than adversarially, and I think he was more calling out the science popularizers which exaggerated claims about it. In fact, he does nothing but mention things from the paper as being accurate.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#76
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, the MSDS indicates SilverShield gloves but does not specifically call out latex gloves as permeable and counter-indicated. This seems like a disastrous error of omission. https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/99021.htm

I read somewhere that in professional dealings with toxic and caustic substances no latex glove would ever be considered impermeable but immediately replaced upon contact with a new pair. The trick is to systematically avoid anything splashing by applying best practices.

Karen Wetterhahn did replace her (latex) gloves immediately after spilling a drop of dimethylmercury on them, but it killed her anyway.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#78
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a comment addressing this and mentioning that (as far as I understood) there could be excess hydrate that is part of the natural crystallization process. Also he could get the reaction wrong and it's large crystals of a different molecule. I just find it hard to believe that a renown lab specialzing in highly explosive compounds had this stuff explode when turning on the spectrometer, but he could hit it wit…

He addresses the disproval part: he didn't disprove their paper. He stated that just because it's below their threshold for sensitively doesn't mean it's super ultra mega sensitive, it just means that it's highly sensitive. 1.5 Joules is more than you think: a hammer tap could easily be less than that (lift a 100g weight a 1.5 meters off the floor: that's 1.5J of potential energy), however, as he puts it, that's stil…

Thanks, that makes sense.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#79

My personal favorite article from Derek Lowe about a chemical that isn't actually all that dangerous... but you still likely don't want it around. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

Selenophenol is also a good one: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor... > The biggest stinker I have run across... Imagine 6 skunks wrapped in rubber innertubes and the whole thing is set ablaze. That might approach the metaphysical stench of this material.

I've not had personal experience with selenophenol but I wonder how it compares with thioacetone when it comes a human's ability to detect it.

Here's a stinky selenium anecdote from when I was a kid. In those days I used to build electronic projects out of parts from war surplus equipment. This was before the time when silicon diode rectifiers were cheap enough to buy on a kid's pocket money (especially so the high current variety), so the fallback was either vacuum tubes or selenium rectifiers.

Anyway, selenium rectifiers were cheap and plentiful except that I didn't have easy access to the high current variety. This led to the rectifiers often being overloaded and sometimes failing catastrophically. It turns out that in their death throes selenium rectifiers emit the most horrible pungent stink somewhat akin to hydrogen sulphide, however once one becomes familiar with the stench there's no mistaking it for H2S.

I've been known to stink the house out much to my mother's chagrin. Yes, even back then I was aware that these selenium fumes were toxic so I did exercise some care but it'd not have passed any of today's occupational health standards.

BTW, selenium rectifiers can be remarkably tolerant of overload and abuse, moreover they warn you when overstressed or they're about to fail as they begin to stink to high heaven.

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