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Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

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61–70 of 79 posts

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#61
post #21
post #11

Oh, then you will love DimethylMercury https://youtu.be/h049Hgfk-BI

Curiously, the MSDS indicates SilverShield gloves but does not specifically call out latex gloves as permeable and counter-indicated. This seems like a disastrous error of omission. https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/99021.htm

I read somewhere that in professional dealings with toxic and caustic substances no latex glove would ever be considered impermeable but immediately replaced upon contact with a new pair. The trick is to systematically avoid anything splashing by applying best practices.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#62

My personal favorite article from Derek Lowe about a chemical that isn't actually all that dangerous... but you still likely don't want it around. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

I'm surprised something so potent was never used as a chemical weapon. Sounds like it could easily clear out a trench or riot in the streets.

It lacks some desirable properties as chemical warfare agent. For one, it doesn't disperse easily and is even noticable at low concentrations. Meaning if you fill at trench with this, it is likely your own trench will notice it too and you won't be able to enter the field for a bit. And everything in the field will stink too for a while, so you can't take advantage of some resources there.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#63

My personal favorite article from Derek Lowe about a chemical that isn't actually all that dangerous... but you still likely don't want it around. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

Goddammit now I really want some of this, just to see how bad it is.

Knowing how "good" glass stink bombs were back when I was in high school, I have zero interest in anything more potent.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my favorite from the series is this one, about a high-nitrogen compound so wildly unstable that it detonated when the lab turned on the spectrometer: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

There's a great video on producing and testing that substance: https://youtu.be/-Sz4d7RQB6Y Interestingly, it's more stable than most online sources give it credit for

He doesn't address this, but some comments do: did he really get the pure molecule or was it some impure compound that made it less sensitive?

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#65
post #2

Previously (x8) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

I don’t know how many times I’ve read this article before, all I know is that today is the day I’ll read it again.

Recipes about Satan’s Kimchi are irresistible.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#66
post #4
post #2

Previously (x8) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

It's really, really good. Short but well-written. The one on chlorine trifluoride (linked in OP, but fixed link) is also really good: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-yo...

“It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water-with which it reacts explosively.”

Fantastic! I can see where Derek Lowe got his writing style inspiration.

Today, he writes about the world of medicines. His Twitter feed is excellent if you want to know more about some of the finer details about COVID related medicines: https://twitter.com/dereklowe?s=21.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#67

My personal favorite article from Derek Lowe about a chemical that isn't actually all that dangerous... but you still likely don't want it around. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

If I had any inclination and cause for terrorist attacks...

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#68

It reminds me of a similarly toned book called “Ignition!” By John Clark that is about the history of the development of rocket propellants. Recommend for a fun read.

I am reading it at the moment. I like the writing style and it is an interesting subject, but I am bit hampered by my lack of knowledge about chemistry.

Re: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride (2010)

#69

A fictional short story by Charles Stross that is a fitting companion piece to this article. An amusing discussion about using extremely dangerous substances as rocket fuel. https://www.tor.com/2012/07/20/a-tall-tail/

The "John D. Clark" in that story is the author of "Ignition!: An informal history of liquid rocket propellants", available from https://archive.org/details/ignition_201612 and frequently posted on HN (see https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ).

That book describes a number of approaches with beryllium: https://archive.org/details/ignition_201612/page/n201/mode/2...

> Recently they have been experimenting with beryllium instead of aluminum. Combustion efficiency with these propellants, particularly the beryllium-based ones, is bound to be bad, since the chamber temperature is comparatively low. ... About all it proves is the willingness of rocket people to try anything, no matter how implausible, if they can con NASA or one of the services into paying for it. ...

> When the combustion difficulties are added to the toxicity of BeO and the price of beryllium, there isn’t really much point in continuing with it.

and with fluorine, in the liquid form: https://archive.org/details/ignition_201612/page/n39/mode/2u...

> The optimum oxidizer is liquid oxygen. (“Fluorine might be good, but its density is too low, and it’s a holy terror to handle.”)

and in an oxidizer that can decompose: https://archive.org/details/ignition_201612/page/n87/mode/2u...

> O2F2 [FOOF] had been reported but was unstable at room temperature ... [a list of other compounds, concluding] ... So ClF3 it had to be. ... It is also quite probably the most vigorous fluorinating agent in existence-much more vigorous than fluorine itself. Gaseous fluorine, of course, is much more dilute than the liquid ClF3, and liquid fluorine is so cold that its activity is very much reduced.

The next page (p74) describes an industrial accident with it, then its use in aerospace:

> The results were excellent, but the difficulties were infuriating. Ignition was beautiful —so smooth that it was like turning on a hose. Performance was high—very close to theoretical. And the reaction was so fast that you could burn it in a surprisingly small chamber. But. If your hardware was dirty, and there was a smear of oil or grease somewhere inside a feed line, said feed line would ignite and cleverly reduce itself to ashes. Gaskets and O-rings generally had to be of metal; no organic material could be restrained from ignition. Teflon would stand up under static conditions, but if the CTF flowed over it with any speed at all, it would erode away like so much sugar in hot water, even if it didn’t ignite. So joints had to be welded whenever possible, and the welds had to be good ...

and that's before getting to the "real difficulties."

Stross certainly read "Ignition!" before writing that short story - https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/10/there_i... .

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