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Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

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Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#321

Post by [deleted] »

xiphias2 wrote: post #141
hsavit1 wrote: post #28

We are rapidly depleting our remaining carbon budget. Can a bitcoiner please explain to me why this is a necessary technological development right now?

Sure, if you are serious, the Bitcoin Standard book is a worthy read. But what’s important is that Bitcoin solves the inflation problem, and proof of work is the only system that we have for getting rid of the Cantillon effect of modern banking: the closer people get to the top of the central banks, the richer they get and destroy life for those who don’t have access to the inner layers of central banking. With Bitco…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#322

Post by sudosysgen »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #277
hocuspocus wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing how well the ransomware industry is faring, it seems Putin doesn't feel too threatened yet. But what happens when he bans all exchanges that off-board cryptocurrencies to Ruble? Will the opposition be happy with tokens that are suddenly useless for day-to-day expenses?

The exchange I'm using is already banned. Didn't stop anyone. The real threat is police baiting users of such exchanges into sending or receiving funds. But we're yet to see such activity from them.

You haven't seen such activity yet because they don't think you're worth the trouble. If you ever are, it will change, and the exchange will become useless.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#323

Post by arcticbull »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #320
sgjohnson wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>like coal or nuclear Nuclear is dirty? How?

Nuclear fuel is made by physically mining the elements that go into it then processing them in an energy intensive process.

It does of course cost far less energy to extract than it produces. It’s extraordinarily energy dense. It only takes 19,000T give or take per year to produce 20% of US energy. The US alone consumes 731,000,000T of coal per year (40,000X).

With breeder reactors we can cut that down by several hundred times - it’s just that uranium is quite abundant and very energy dense so we haven't really bothered to.

Further there’s a few billion tons in the ocean we’re working on extracting.

If we’re willing to accept extracting rare earth metals from Mongolian hellscapes like Baitou and calling wind green, it’s pretty disingenuous not to extend the same treatment to nuclear. [1] There is no free lunch.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-...

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#324

Post by arcticbull »

colecut wrote: post #306
arcticbull wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one person died for every 8000 transactions on the Visa network it would be nothing short of global genocide. Credit networks ran 468 billion transactions in 2020, so that would be 60 million dead. "Pobody's nerfect" hardly seems like the right response.

It is if you're being darkly cynical

Touché.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#325

Post by olalonde »

Chyzwar wrote: post #308
Nextgrid wrote: post #56

The only way to beat Bitcoin or other proof-of-work cryptocurrencies is to remove the need for them. Bitcoin and other cryptos have a use-case; it may not be apparent to someone living in a developed country with access to a good banking system or it may be one you don't like and involves criminal activity, but there absolutely is a use-case. The only way to stop this is if the traditional banking system catches up a…

Then, We should make money laundering, drug trafficking, ransomware, blackmail etc legal?. Banking system is regulated precisely to make illegal activities more difficult. Sooner or later, crypto exchanges will get regulated in the same way as banks. It just takes time for regulators to catch up.

> Banking system is regulated precisely to make illegal activities more difficult.

But at what cost? I'd argue that the costs outweigh the benefits. It hinders competition and innovation, makes it hard or impossible for some people and businesses to access the banking system, increases fees on consumers due to the immense cost of compliance (>$180bn a year worldwide), puts innocent people behind bars ("guilty until proven innocent" is the typical standard with AML), is a privacy nightmare, puts police investigative work into the hands of private sector employees, makes operating globally almost impossible, etc.

Meanwhile, has it really deterred any crime? How about we just go back to catching criminals the good old fashion, with police investigations, for actual crimes, just like we did pre 1989. Hell, use financial data to inform investigations if needed.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#326

Post by joshgrib »

admax88qqq wrote: post #278
svara wrote: post #61

PoW mining (at least), must be made illegal. I have no doubts that it will end by becoming illegal, the question is how and when. It boggles the mind that there is now essentially a worldwide tax on semiconductors, which is used to do... nothing of any value whatsoever. And this thing just keeps growing. The effects will be felt in more and more economic sectors. Something will have to give. So, the only question is:…

There's lots of ways to turn electricity into money. Bitcoin is one of the easiest but you're not going to stop climate change or make a reasonably impact on the growing energy demands of civilization by banning it. Better to focus on replacing all energy production with green sources and taxing polluters rather than trying to ban specific energy uses you don't like.

This seems like a fair solution that could have the same impact - if the pollution tax is high enough and the mining profits are low enough then mining would no longer be profitable. At a minimum it at least makes sure people are "cleaning up after themselves" by paying to mitigate the damage they cause

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#328

Post by vanusa »

cableshaft wrote: post #169
arcticbull wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is that according to Cambridge some 40% of that is coal power [1]. Frequently the dirtiest coal power in the world, between Xinjiang (no longer, probably...) and Kazakhstan. Coal power causes excess mortality of anywhere between 25 and 278 deaths per TWh generated depending on how you're counting it and (most importantly) where it's generated. [2,3,4] Bitcoin's addiction to dirty coal killed between 15…

You really think that China banning bitcoin means they no longer use those dirty coal power plants? For a country that has such a huge demand for power that it's had blackouts and struggled to keep businesses powered even AFTER they banned all bitcoin mining[1]? Maybe that might even have to do with why they banned it in the first place? It sucks that bitcoin uses so much power, but these countries using fossil fuels…

You really think that China banning bitcoin means they no longer use those dirty coal power plants?

You may want to examine the logical flaw behind this line of questioning.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#329

Post by loceng »

vanusa wrote: post #328
cableshaft wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think that China banning bitcoin means they no longer use those dirty coal power plants? For a country that has such a huge demand for power that it's had blackouts and struggled to keep businesses powered even AFTER they banned all bitcoin mining[1]? Maybe that might even have to do with why they banned it in the first place? It sucks that bitcoin uses so much power, but these countries using fossil fuels…

You really think that China banning bitcoin means they no longer use those dirty coal power plants? You may want to examine the logical flaw behind this line of questioning.

Indeed - from my understanding those power plants, the cheap energy, was cheap and available, in excess, because they're located in areas with little development or use for the energy otherwise.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#330

Post by lostmsu »

2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #214
spenrose wrote: post #86

The world used about (12,000 Mtoe = ) 140,000 TWh [1], making this 0.1% of world consumption. OP claims 64 MtCO2e of associated GHG emissions, which is also about 0.1%. I'd call these figures under "troubling but not yet material to the climate." [1] https://www.iea.org/reports/key-world-energy-statistics-2020...

> making this 0.1% of world consumption I believe that your info makes it sound even worse than the headline if you take into account how few people use cryptocurrencies vs. the amount of people worldwide using electricity directly or indirectly.

Do you believe less than 1/1000 of people used cryptocurrency?
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