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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#521

Post by ricardobayes »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #519
ricardobayes wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After working in the industry, I can safely say self-driving is a massively profitable lie. It can work in limited instances, but I don't think we'll have full self driving aka level 5 in urban environments until infrastructure changes. You simply need 5G/V2X for that. Just relying on cameras will not work. On that page, I have my concerns about EVs in general, who knows what the long-term health effects are for sitt…

who knows what the long-term health effects are for sitting on top of a HV battery and being surrounded by that electro-smog. A fellow named Planck knew, when he used the expression E=hv to describe the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. You just missed class that day, I imagine. Fortunately it's never too late to learn.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23337237/ I will accept an apology.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#522

Post by CamperBob2 »

ricardobayes wrote: post #521
CamperBob2 wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who knows what the long-term health effects are for sitting on top of a HV battery and being surrounded by that electro-smog. A fellow named Planck knew, when he used the expression E=hv to describe the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. You just missed class that day, I imagine. Fortunately it's never too late to learn.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23337237/ I will accept an apology.

Ah, the ubiquitous rebuttal, "Here's a link to an unreproducible result with pubmed in the URL. You lose, sir." I know when I'm beat!

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#523

Post by t0mas88 »

homami wrote: post #425
deepGem wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty sad. Emirates, for all their glory doesn't pay their pilots well. I mean, what's the point in spending on stuff like fancy first class seats and all that without paying pilots well. True irony. Fanciest and the most comfortable airline for the passengers, the exact opposite for the pilots.

I've been a frequent flyer of Emirates for the past ~ six years. From my perspective, the airline suddenly changed about three years ago. The quality of their service dropped and still every time that I take an EK flight, I notice something else is missing from the service. Flying Emirates does not have any glory anymore.

They still have some of the brand association of luxury, but indeed it's a very normal airline just like all the others. With similar service, legroom and food. But with no direct flights, which is less comfortable.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#524

Post by ricardobayes »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #522
ricardobayes wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23337237/ I will accept an apology.

Ah, the ubiquitous rebuttal, "Here's a link to an unreproducible result with pubmed in the URL. You lose, sir." I know when I'm beat!

You are right, the study is inconclusive.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#525

Post by kxrm »

bradleyjg wrote: post #460
ricardobayes wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After working in the industry, I can safely say self-driving is a massively profitable lie. It can work in limited instances, but I don't think we'll have full self driving aka level 5 in urban environments until infrastructure changes. You simply need 5G/V2X for that. Just relying on cameras will not work. On that page, I have my concerns about EVs in general, who knows what the long-term health effects are for sitt…

> Just relying on cameras will not work. If it’s good enough for us (two small cameras and two microphones all mounted right next to each other) why is it inherently infeasible for a computer?

I think there is more senses being used in driving then just eyes and ears. I am not the best driver in the world, but I use a lot of senses while driving, abnormal vibrations that are felt cause me to be more alert. Constant awareness of hills and road conditions are felt.

Saying it's just cameras and microphones vastly over simplifies what driving involves for a human.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#526

Post by aurizon »

kingofpandora wrote: post #496
aurizon wrote: post #280

Arab societies are intensely hierarchical = orders from down from the top, there is no counterflow upwards. This is exacerbated by the political appointees that populate the top ranks. With an incompetent's political appointee as captain, his authority can not be challenged - even as planes crash. This manifests in quasi military groups, the the civilian air forces, which have a preponderance of ex-military officers…

Sad to see clap trap like "Why Arabs Lose Wars" used to explain anything, but especially an aircraft incident.

Bear in mind that the cultural difference that exists in the military, which the air force is part of, has demonstrably spread to the command hierarchy where junior flight crew DARE NOT raise any issue that is at all critical of the Captain or other senior crew members. These hierarchical differences are well known in Arabic as well as Asian flight crews. Hard to see why the demonstrated dismal failure of the Arab armies and Air forces against the Israelis is called clap trap. It is the dismissal of a serious introspective analysis of how the army and air force failed even when they outnumbered their enemy almost 10 to 1 as clap trap that speaks to the ineffective state of those forces.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#527

Post by _moof »

EMM_386 wrote: post #120
onphonenow wrote: post #16

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

It's unbelievable that the pilot's didn't realize they were doing 215 knots while still ON THE GROUND and only decided to pull back on the yoke once they were nearing the end of the runway. They should have at least seen the end of the runway coming up and wondered why they weren't airborne yet. The ends are colored in amber and red as it gets closer to the end, it should be pretty obvious something is wrong. Pull ba…

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft.

Can confirm. I flew with someone recently who has a very fancy integrated glass cockpit, and shortly after takeoff he turned the controls over to me. The flight director was very clearly giving incorrect indications, turning us onto a track 90° from our intended course, so I ignored it and flew what I knew to be correct before turning my attention to getting the radios set up right. It took an unbelievable amount of arguing to convince the owner that the aircraft was configured incorrectly, and that I was in fact flying the airplane correctly. And all I had to do to notice this was look outside.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#528

Post by ozfive »

ImaCake wrote: post #333
nickjj wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.

I've just gone from a 2004 Corolla to a 2020 Serrato. It's a low end car but it has lane assist, braking detection when a car slows in front, cruise, speed limiter, etc. Combine all those settings with google maps and it easy for me to see how you could get complacent driving a new car and make mistakes. All these features work well most of the time, but they all notably fail on, still frequent, edge cases.

> Combine all those settings with google maps and it easy for me to see how you could get complacent driving a new car and make mistakes.

This along with the fact that in my 2020 Toyota Corolla those features can more than likely get you into an accident is the reason I have them turned off. I don't actually feel safe with them on after experiencing their performance. Also notice a stutter in acceleration due to fuel injection timing and response from the gas pedal that concerns me.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#529

Post by ozfive »

kxrm wrote: post #525
bradleyjg wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just relying on cameras will not work. If it’s good enough for us (two small cameras and two microphones all mounted right next to each other) why is it inherently infeasible for a computer?

I think there is more senses being used in driving then just eyes and ears. I am not the best driver in the world, but I use a lot of senses while driving, abnormal vibrations that are felt cause me to be more alert. Constant awareness of hills and road conditions are felt. Saying it's just cameras and microphones vastly over simplifies what driving involves for a human.

It's interesting that you talk about using more senses while driving. I always crack the window to listen to the road noise as it helps me guage what the other cars are doing and has helped several times in avoiding collisions with other drivers that weren't paying attention since I could hear the change in noise within the standard noise of the road.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#530

Post by _moof »

encoderer wrote: post #172
throwanem wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The takeoff isn't directly automated, but there's a system called the "flight director" [1] that provides indicators on the pilot flying's display that correspond with a configured trajectory. In this case, it sounds like the flight director was badly misconfigured and the pilots not only omitted to reconfigure it, but followed the erroneous indication far past any point at which it was remotely reasonable (or remote…

So this is the airline equivalent of Michael Scott following his gps into the lake? Insane

It is precisely that, and it is inexcusable.
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