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End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

arstechnica.com

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Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#21

Post by rcarmo »

amaccuish wrote: post #8
rcarmo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older Blackberries relied on a centralized server for configuration and setup of both public and corporate settings. The devices _should_ be able to make calls and text (baseline SMS), but they might error out in various things (browser dead, contacts gone, even some menus dead or stalling) and if they are reset you might not be able to get texting back (since it _might_ not rely on the SIM card to set the SMS me…

To further this, BlackBerries relied on a special GPRS APN to get access to the internet. BlackBerry had VPNs and leased lines with major carriers and Blackberries would communicate via the APN to proxies located in BlackBerry data centers. All the network config was stored on the phone in "Service Books" and could be pushed out via carriers or BES Admins.

Yes. The Service Book carried a lot of information that these days people take for granted on most devices. And with the APN down and nothing handshaking and serving a default service book (which, incidentally, was served over a proprietary TCP connection IIRC), the phone just won't get the right configurations.

That is why I said it _should_ still work for base calls (and likely SMS), but nothing else, really.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#22

Post by rcarmo »

thedrbrian wrote: post #12
rcarmo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older Blackberries relied on a centralized server for configuration and setup of both public and corporate settings. The devices _should_ be able to make calls and text (baseline SMS), but they might error out in various things (browser dead, contacts gone, even some menus dead or stalling) and if they are reset you might not be able to get texting back (since it _might_ not rely on the SIM card to set the SMS me…

> The older Blackberries relied on a centralized server for configuration and setup of both public and corporate settings. The devices _should_ be able to make calls and text (baseline SMS), but they might error out in various things (browser dead, contacts gone, even some menus dead or stalling) and if they are reset you might not be able to get texting back (since it _might_ not rely on the SIM card to set the SMS…

In a normal phone, you don't need to text anything to get the SMS setup - your SIM card should come with the SMS Center MSISDN baked in.

But Blackberries just don't operate like that. They never did while I was using them (until 2015, IIRC, and I had family using theirs for a few more years, so I know the setup process remained the same).

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#23

Post by rcarmo »

traceroute66 wrote: post #9
TonyTrapp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the explanation, though I think I still don't quite understand it. Is there something that's required to be provided by Blackberry on either side to make this work? I would have kind of expected that 2G/3G/etc. are device-agnostic and would work with just about any device with a valid SIM card trying to connect to the network. I know someone who's using an older pre-Android Blackberry, so I'll have to figu…

> Thanks for the explanation, though I think I still don't quite understand it The underlying point is that the Blackberry was not your average smartphone. Your average smartphone (assuming it is not carrier locked) can be used forever (although it would not be advisable to do so due to lack of security and OS updates). The Blackberry was a wolf in sheep's clothing. It might just look like another smartphone, but it…

The 8000 series was a custom J2ME shell around a pretty basic set of services that were completely tied to the BES (enterprise server). They even had to be upgraded to work with "public", "unbound" e-mail accounts, which were all routed through RIM's services.

It was almost a thin client, really.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#24

Post by Zenst »

p_l wrote: post #7
TonyTrapp wrote: post #2

> As of January 4th, the phones will no longer be provided with provisioning services, meaning that they will gradually lose the ability to join networks, including the cellular network. I honestly don't get this. How can calls via the regular cellular network stop working reliably? I'm using a dumbphone that hasn't seen any updates in its entire lifetime and it still works reliably for making calls.

Blackberry was always the weird one out that effectively depended on special service from your provider combined with special tariffs for using them. This is a legacy from when they were explicitly enterprise devices and you couldn't exactly buy them normally. Similarly, the core functionality of the original BB - email - is no longer supported (though you can probably run it still) because the special server softwar…

> Blackberry was always the weird one out that effectively depended on special service from your provider

Yes, service books they were called.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#25

Post by Zenst »

dmitriid wrote: post #10

> Unlike the people who developed Android, BlackBerry's leadership was blindsided by the iPhone's popularity Android was blindsided by iPhone reveal, but the developers had the foresight to see where it was headed.

I worked for Blackberry in the period running up to the iPhone launch. Was many tech people in support who saw it as a threat, though upper management did not and IMHO some serious mistakes were made as they were more focused upon shifting towards catering for consumers devices and yet had to keep their business offerings going and kind of ended up miss-managing both.

Then the whole business culture did change, the rigid suit brigade was not so much the core business base and form over function seemed to change in balance.

Ironically, was many core blackberry users who stuck with earlier models of the phone, shunning the colour screens etc and personally, the jog wheel was brilliant for email navigation one handed and yet to be equaled for me.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#26

Post by rbanffy »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #20
p_l wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackberry was always the weird one out that effectively depended on special service from your provider combined with special tariffs for using them. This is a legacy from when they were explicitly enterprise devices and you couldn't exactly buy them normally. Similarly, the core functionality of the original BB - email - is no longer supported (though you can probably run it still) because the special server softwar…

Note that this only applies to the older BlackBerry OS (7 and earlier) phones, which used the BES. BB10 and later Android phones worked and will continue to work like any other phone. The Z10 and Q10 were the first BB10 phones in 2013, and I believe BlackBerry only produced one more BBOS phone after that. After the Classic and Passport in late 2014, BlackBerry switched to Android with the Priv, KeyOne, and Key2 and e…

> essentially abandoned the BB10 OS and phones.

A terrible shame. I used a BB10 and built a couple toy apps for it, but it was difficult to publish them from Brazil (and the market was, sadly, tiny). It was easier if you developed for Android, but still you’d need older APIs.

QNX is an amazing OS, a work of art. I learned C (and vi!) on it in the late 80s and it’s up there with zOS, and Solaris as my favourite proprietary OSs.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#27

Post by rbanffy »

magikaram wrote: post #3
TonyTrapp wrote: post #2

> As of January 4th, the phones will no longer be provided with provisioning services, meaning that they will gradually lose the ability to join networks, including the cellular network. I honestly don't get this. How can calls via the regular cellular network stop working reliably? I'm using a dumbphone that hasn't seen any updates in its entire lifetime and it still works reliably for making calls.

I work for an ISP, and when we provision land lines, its a sort of handshake between the device and our network. Due to older dumbphones provisioning requiring minimal effort, it seems that they don't require the same tools. BlackBerry devices however are running a full-fledged OS that requires support. Since the affected devices are at latest from 2013, it seems reasonable that most of those affected have moved off…

> it seems reasonable that most of those affected have moved off of said devices.

My DevAplha died years ago, but, if you want me to stop using my Q10, you will have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. Same with my Palm Pre, BTW.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#28

Post by rbanffy »

ncpa-cpl wrote: post #15

I was more productive with phones that had a physical QWERTY keyboard. I could touch type and required less autocorrect. Like autocorrect today still doesn't support typing Spanish with 'vos' conjugations well. For example it keeps wanting to change the 'to be' verb 'sos' to 'SOS' or a 'SOS' emoji. Has any of you used modern phones with physical keyboards? How has your experience been?

> Like autocorrect today

Duck autocorrect.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#29

Post by rbanffy »

Zenst wrote: post #25
dmitriid wrote: post #10

> Unlike the people who developed Android, BlackBerry's leadership was blindsided by the iPhone's popularity Android was blindsided by iPhone reveal, but the developers had the foresight to see where it was headed.

I worked for Blackberry in the period running up to the iPhone launch. Was many tech people in support who saw it as a threat, though upper management did not and IMHO some serious mistakes were made as they were more focused upon shifting towards catering for consumers devices and yet had to keep their business offerings going and kind of ended up miss-managing both. Then the whole business culture did change, the r…

> the jog wheel was brilliant for email navigation

The experience of using one was always great. They took usability very seriously in a market that was easily impressed with 3D accelerated transitions.

What I really liked was having all messaging streams converging into a single app. Now I need to keep two Outlook windows (email and calendar) along with another for Teams and monitor stuff happening from all sides, as if I’m NORAD for messages.

Re: End of the line finally coming for BlackBerry devices

#30

Post by iso1210 »

ncpa-cpl wrote: post #15

I was more productive with phones that had a physical QWERTY keyboard. I could touch type and required less autocorrect. Like autocorrect today still doesn't support typing Spanish with 'vos' conjugations well. For example it keeps wanting to change the 'to be' verb 'sos' to 'SOS' or a 'SOS' emoji. Has any of you used modern phones with physical keyboards? How has your experience been?

I had a Curve 83xx, it was great. I had a qwerty keyboard phone a few years later and it was terrible in comparison.

Whether the issues with the 83xx are glossed over between both it being my first phone which had practical utility beyond phone/sms and nostalgia, or if there was something particularly good about it, I'm not sure.

I do know that Microsoft should have bought RIM back in 2008, it was their only chance to compete in the mobile market, the blackberry was actually popular in a way XDA etc wasn't.

RIM lost because of stuck-in-the-mud boomer IT departments locking down so the CFO couldn't play candycrush or angry birds on his phone, and Microsoft had a similar mindset back then, so it likely wouldn't have work. Instead CFO buys an iphone, then tells IT to make email work with it, and it's gone. It was the embodiment of the star wars "tighten your grip and systems fall through your grasp" phrase.

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