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We need to reclaim our attention

theguardian.com

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Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#211

Post by jacquesm »

neuronic wrote: post #188
mc32 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say more broadly it will be used for manipulative purposes. It’s a great tool for getting eager participants and then “gamifying” it to achieve some wanted behavior that extends to real life.

A Pokemon GO - like game but developed by a subversive power to destabilize society further and further, inch by inch, slowly until the strength withers from within. Would be a decent Black Mirror episode.

Charles Stross has this, a game called 'Spooks' in one of his books.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#212

Post by jacquesm »

bittercynic wrote: post #155
jacquesm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. And then, at the end of every youtube video a whole slew of totally unrelated trashy videos that are perfectly produced to produce maximum engagement and eye candy will hijack your attention and steal another 3 hours before you even notice that they're gone because of the in-your-face nature of the recommendations. Wouldn't it be great if all youtube did was just store and replay videos? But it doesn't, it's an…

Not a complete solution, but I like to block the elements that are most distracting to me. www.youtube.com##.html5-endscreen .ytp-pause-overlay www.youtube.com###secondary

Thank you!

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#213

Post by fennecfoxen »

Nextgrid wrote: post #199
micromacrofoot wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More transparency around algorithmically prioritized newsfeeds seem like an obvious place to start. According to what little insight we have they’re mostly prioritized for “engagement” which in some cases has intentionally come at the cost of people’s moods (according facebook’s own internal reporting). Large companies have psychology/sociology experts working on this stuff in favor of the respective companies, but a…

More liability is the answer. Social media went from a communications platform where people could post content and subscribe to receive other people's content (in a chronological feed) into something where the social platform decides what content you receive (via the algorithmic feed) in order to benefit the platform by maximizing engagement and ad views. Conventional newspapers did the same for decades and have been…

> Conventional newspapers did the same for decades and have been bound by some laws and regulations as a publisher

Oh yes, the notorious No Law, made by Congress — as directed in the First Amendment.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#214

Post by ClumsyPilot »

moonchrome wrote: post #119
batch12 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, these examples- radio and TV aren't even in the same league as the manipulation and engagement that comes from the algorithmic feedback loop that backs these services. The comparison is dangerously dismissive.

All this talk about "algorithmic feedback loops" is overselling the quality of said algos (eg. I get more interesting suggestions when I open YT incognito then I do when I'm signed in, I have to scroll through a bunch of stuff I have 0 interest on FB when I open it, etc.) and their importance. It's completely missing the actual attention grabbing factor here - there's a huge amount of content for consumption on deman…

"All this talk about "algorithmic feedback loops" is overselling the quality of said algos"

So it's you agree that the villains are evil, but your defence for them is that they are inept?

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#215

Post by jdgoesmarching »

saiya-jin wrote: post #175
parkingrift wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are those two examples even remotely comparable? Uninstall social media from your phone, delete your social media accounts, put your phone in a box when you get home, etc, etc, etc. These “problems” are trivially easy for an individual to solve. They are so easy to solve that I disagree with the basic premise that we even have a problem. I think we could rewrite this article from the perspective of any generation…

Well, in same vein, you can tell addict to 'just drop that needle', yet few do. Or cigarettes. Addictive behavior is, well, addictive, and few in population have the mental will to shed it off themselves once they get hooked. Tobacco clearly kills you (and people around), ruins you and make you stink like pile of old crap. We still allow it, but regulate it heavily since bad effects are out there, everywhere. TBH I d…

HN and many tech-minded forums struggle the most with arguments that require empathy. For people who probably don’t consider themselves religious, their outlook is extremely Puritanical.

“I see you explaining why x is difficult for most people, but I don’t struggle with it so the difficulty is invalid.”

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#216

Post by nicbou »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #10

The problem isn't as much that social media is addictive. The issue is that people aren't happy with their other options of what to do. If you have a draining job and don't have energy to put into a hobby, or you don't have lots of friends to hang out with, you're much more likely to waste time on something addictive.

I have a ton of time and energy, and I'm still hooked. I implemented a bunch of countermeasures, but I'm still not in control. I don't think that the lack of alternatives is entirely to blame.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#217

Post by jacquesm »

inetknght wrote: post #81
jacquesm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing about that is that if you convince enough people that violence and collapse are imminent it may well become true. Scenes in Amsterdam right now: https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6176186/noodbevel-museumplein-n...

For someone who can't see the pictures or read dutch, can you summarize?

One of our political parties has found out that by pressing the 'anti-government' button and piling on a bunch of conspiracy theories they can mobilize scarily large sections of society for protests, which invariably turn violent because there is a radical element at play.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#220

Post by SavantIdiot »

fullshark wrote: post #182
SavantIdiot wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How?

I expound in a conversation with Apocryphon attached to that post

> more a destruction of shared cultural values, in particular those that are good for "society" like a belief in the value of work, family unit, deeper concerns than material wealth (e.g. god/spirituality) etc at least in the west / America.

This is what conservatives have been crowing about since the 40/50's when black music started dominating the airwaves. It's a really old argument that is literally moral panic with no proof. I thought maybe you had some new thoughts to add, but you don't.

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