Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We need to reclaim our attention

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 458 posts

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#121

Post by parkingrift »

jmfldn wrote: post #2

This for me is key, these sorts of problems cannot just be solved on an individual level. They are systemic. "Individual abstinence is “not the solution, for the same reason that wearing a gas mask for two days a week outside isn’t the answer to pollution. It might, for a short period of time, keep certain effects at bay, but it’s not sustainable, and it doesn’t address the systemic issues.” He said that our attentio…

How are those two examples even remotely comparable?

Uninstall social media from your phone, delete your social media accounts, put your phone in a box when you get home, etc, etc, etc.

These “problems” are trivially easy for an individual to solve. They are so easy to solve that I disagree with the basic premise that we even have a problem.

I think we could rewrite this article from the perspective of any generation. Just replace the phone with whatever hysteria was happening in that era. Music, video games, comics, or whatever.

The author of this article seems to just throw her hands up without having tried even a single thing.

“No, I cannot manage my own behavior. It is society that must change!”

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#122

Post by hackingthelema »

xwdv wrote: post #115
hackingthelema wrote: post #67

I often wonder what the world would be like if the Buddhist sciences of the mind (e.g. mindfulness) were taught at all levels of society, as a priority, and TFA mentions it near the end, to say it's not enough: > Meditation is a useful tool – but we actually need to stop the people who are pouring itching powder on us. We need to band together to take on the forces stealing our attention and take it back. I'd argue t…

One way that would really help achieve better mental hygiene for the masses would be if we had some sort of sensors that could detect when a person’s attention is being diverted away from the task at hand, and remind them to refocus. A person could then see a sort of screen time type summary of how long they are being productive and when they are wasting time on mindless garbage. Perhaps even employers could provide…

I wouldn't mind knowing more. Do you have any links to research or work in progress in this area?

The Buddha had a lot of great ideas, but it was over 2000 years ago. If, perhaps, we can teach mindfulness in a way that is more consistent and available to all (like a focus-detection feature in devices), I would definitely support it if it results in the same changes in the brain. Since changes induced by meditation (both acute and long-term) are detectable with brain scans, this seems like something easy to test and compare with traditional mindfulness teachings and practices.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#123

Post by Apocryphon »

thegrimmest wrote: post #117
sascha_sl wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I wanted to avoid this discussion. Because philosophically, I really don't disagree with this statement, but the discussion has pivoted past the important part, where we talk about whether total economic freedom is itself ideology (or "an imposition of belief"). It doesn't exist in a vaccum. It is a way to maximize one particular aspect of freedom, but at the expense of other aspects. You will always have…

I'm curious how you would categorize total economic freedom in any sense an "imposition of belief". It is simply absence of any imposition into the economic realm. What other aspects are being sacrificed in order to maximise this aspect? I'm not sure the paradox of tolerance is a statement of fact.

What if total economic freedom resulted in the reduction of other freedoms

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#124

Post by watwut »

radicalbyte wrote: post #18

My attention has collapsed in recent times, but it's not because of mobiles. It's because I have three young kids. You literally have to keep your eye on them at all times so you stop them killing themselves. Also, going from 8 hrs of sleep a night + 1 hr of intensive sport a day to 4-5 hrs of sleep a night and 1 hr of sport a year is an absolute mind killer. When I was younger I could never imagine going into manage…

For me it was exact same. Even when kids were safe, they wanted my attention approximately every 10 minutes. That destroyed my attention span quite seriously.

It got back after a while and effort, but social media were not to blame.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#125

Post by dragonwriter »

xwdv wrote: post #115
hackingthelema wrote: post #67

I often wonder what the world would be like if the Buddhist sciences of the mind (e.g. mindfulness) were taught at all levels of society, as a priority, and TFA mentions it near the end, to say it's not enough: > Meditation is a useful tool – but we actually need to stop the people who are pouring itching powder on us. We need to band together to take on the forces stealing our attention and take it back. I'd argue t…

One way that would really help achieve better mental hygiene for the masses would be if we had some sort of sensors that could detect when a person’s attention is being diverted away from the task at hand, and remind them to refocus. A person could then see a sort of screen time type summary of how long they are being productive and when they are wasting time on mindless garbage. Perhaps even employers could provide…

> One way that would really help achieve better mental hygiene for the masses would be if we had some sort of sensors that could detect when a person’s attention is being diverted away from the task at hand, and remind them to refocus.

I suspect that no, constant nagging wouldn't improve “mental hygiene”, in any useful definition of that term.

I also suspect it wouldn’t improve productivity, only stress.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#126

Post by pietrovismara »

trwhite wrote: post #109
slibhb wrote: post #42

> Some scientists say these worries about attention are a moral panic, comparable to the anxieties in the past about comic books or rap music, and that the evidence is shaky. I agree with them. It's hard to pay attention to something for long unless it's entertaining. Reading a book, reading a paper, etc -- these activities take discipline that most people don't develop or don't often apply. This isn't new. The mista…

Video games are immensely addictive. The burst of adrenaline some of the recent online FPS' give me doesn't compare to any other feeling or experience I've had as a human being. They didn't just happen to be this way. They have been designed to be so thrilling that normal life cannot compete.

Isn't for a game to be thrilling usually the ultimate goal? I'm not concerned about games being fun to play, that's what they are for. I'm more concerned about the dopamine exploiting patterns implemented in modern games, especially those targeted at younger gamers.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#127

Post by thegrimmest »

Apocryphon wrote: post #123
thegrimmest wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you would categorize total economic freedom in any sense an "imposition of belief". It is simply absence of any imposition into the economic realm. What other aspects are being sacrificed in order to maximise this aspect? I'm not sure the paradox of tolerance is a statement of fact.

What if total economic freedom resulted in the reduction of other freedoms

Which other freedoms are you referring to? How would they be reduced by total economic freedom? I don't see how economic freedom would lead directly to violence.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#128

Post by watwut »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #50
dominotw wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1 hr of intensive sport a day to 1 hr of sport a year did you make this tradeoff by choice( vs religious reasons ect) . I've never been that active but you sound like someone who enjoyed sports and being active.

As a parent with a 3 and 4 year old who was only a functional adult if I worked out intensely at least 4 days per week, and now is struggling desperately to get that back, its not by choice. Children are just really demanding. I think a big part of the problem is that humans were not meant to raise children in isolated family units. You were meant to have a small village where they could go bother different adults an…

They used to die in accidents a lot more then now. They used to be independent significantly sooner too. Like, 5 years olds herding gooses next to river with no adult independent.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#129

Post by Vetch »

jarvist wrote: post #28
wrnr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire way the old media reports on the new media is unironical scaremongering about how the internet is hacking the fear response of your amygdala. They should instead be positive and publish articles like "Here are 10 youtube channels that go into more depth that the master program of any university".

Could you point me in the direction of a single YouTube channel that goes into more depth than a Masters program? Other than occasional captured lectures, everything 'educational' on YouTube seems to me to be optimising for that TED-style sense of wonder / happy familiarisation with the content, which is poorly associated with learning outcomes.

It's difficult to find material that's a series, rigorously demonstrated and advanced at the same time (there's lots excellent material that ticks either one or the other of those boxes). Here are some examples I subscribe to that come close:

Covers Quantum Field Theory and General relativity in as approachable a manner as I imagine is possible while still going deep into detail: https://www.youtube.com/c/viascience/videos

Theoretical machine learning, Information theory and probabilistic inference: https://www.youtube.com/user/mathematicalmonk/videos

Heavy emphasis on analysis and measure theory: https://www.youtube.com/c/brightsideofmaths/videos

While ScienceClic's coverage of differential geometry topics is mostly a thin vertical slice of the subject, it covers it with incredible visualizations and pedagogical approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xodtfM1r9FA&list=PLu7cY2CPiR....

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#130

Post by freeflight »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #76
batch12 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, these examples- radio and TV aren't even in the same league as the manipulation and engagement that comes from the algorithmic feedback loop that backs these services. The comparison is dangerously dismissive.

Right, I think addiction is probably the bigger story rather than attention.

I'm not sure how much that actually changes about the discussion, for the better.

If this is an addiction, then it will be one that's gonna be very difficult to break for most people.

In most places it's nowadays near impossible to go about your day without some kind of online activity or interaction. Especially as during this pandemic a lot of "in person" alternatives for it have been phased out of use.

So in practice the addicts are regularly forced to interact with their source of addiction. How are we supposed to fix that?

Post reply on HN