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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#261

Post by throwawayboise »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #186

You put your life in many other people's hands every time you step into an airport. If you use Chickens, Goats, and Passengers Airlines, expect not to make it to your destination in one piece. 737 NG (-6xx (736), -7xx, -8xx (738), -9xx (739)), MAX, and 787 are reasons not to fly on Boeing equipment. They have both obscure (Ducommun) and well-known history of cutting corners in design, testing, manufacturing, and who…

Are you deliberately ignoring the catastrophic, multiple-fatality train wrecks over the history of rail transportation?

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#262

Post by GekkePrutser »

Zak wrote: post #154
jacquesm wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's proper procedure. When in doubt: fail safe. These guys even flew the plane back instead of being replaced by another crew, and that's with a plane that has just been used way in excess of its design parameters on more than one measure.

I've heard pilots put this as "it's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground".

Or "take-off is optional but landing is mandatory" :)

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#263

Post by nexuist »

jackweirdy wrote: post #244
nexuist wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll play devil's advocate and suggest that it is a systems error that the 777 accepted an altitude of 0 without sounding an alarm or at least requiring prior confirmation. It shouldn't be that easy to almost total the airplane.

Bear in mind there are airports in the world at less than 0ft sea level. Very complicated to validate what a valid input actually is

While true, my understanding is that the altimeters automatically calibrate themselves to air pressure as well as use auxiliary readings from the radio altimeter to provide an altitude system where 0ft is sea level, always. However given that the pilots seemingly didn't follow the pre-flight checklist it's possible they did not calibrate the altimeter either.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#264

Post by jquery »

WalterBright wrote: post #181
omegant wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes way beyond checklist stuff. Imagine having an intermediate system in your Tesla, one between fully manual and the autopilot. This system uses the navigation capabilities of the autopilot to draw in the big screen some squares that guide you to your destination without the need to look outside. Something you may find in a videogame. This system is helpfull and easy to use, and allows you to pay attention to mo…

Interesting comparing this with the 737MAX crashes. There, I regularly get excoriated on HN for suggesting that the pilots not knowing to turn off the stab trim system when it goes haywire is unreasonable, despite it being a "memory item" and despite Emergency Airworthiness Directives reiterating this.

I made that same point repeatedly, to mixed reception. Boeing is absolutely at fault but the airlines that had crashes were also guilty of cutting corners. Boeing is (rightly) held to a high standard. I try to fly on airlines that have similar high standards for the operations.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#265

Post by Cookingboy »

josephcsible wrote: post #236
errcorrectcode wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're making a strawman just to be disagreeable without adding anything constructive: 1. I never recommended driving. It's awful for the environment and extremely unsafe. 2. Transoceanic train lines. Hyperloop or similar. Do you have anything else to add?

> Transoceanic train lines These don't exist, and probably won't for the foreseeable future. What should we all do until then?

Teleportation, duh!

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#266

Post by stereo »

nilsbunger wrote: post #255
onphonenow wrote: post #16

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

The "black hole effect" is one mitigating factor - if you take off on a moonless night, it is surprisingly disorienting, and can become debilitating. These pilots missed a bunch of very basic things like rotating at V1. Maybe they got totally disoriented and it incapacitated them? Good training is supposed to prevent that. This wasn't a "missed an item on a checklist" story.

We're talking about Dubai, which is probably one of the brightest places in the world at night.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#268

Post by krallja »

ketanmaheshwari wrote: post #110

So if the altitude was set to zero, why did the aircraft even took off at all (I am thankful it did though)?

The plane took off because the pilot pulled back on the stick. There was no automation involved. The flight director is a suggestion, just like GPS navigation in a car. If you can’t turn right because the road is flooded, you go straight, and ignore the GPS which is telling you to go right.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#269

Post by GekkePrutser »

azalemeth wrote: post #216
jacquesm wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note: I have had a triple go-around and even though everybody was super happy about making their connections on time I personally thought that that was an extremely unsafe landing with the port side wing coming uncomfortably close to the tarmac. Severe windshear, ours was the last flight to land before the airport was closed. The pilot stood at the door to say goodbye to the passengers and was visibly upset.…

This rings very true. My dad is a retired commercial pilot and has a whole evening's worth of rant about this, albeit mostly in the 1970s-80s, before pilot hours were regulated to quite the same extent they are now (and with less automation). He said that his absolute worst was a "double washington" (i.e. London to Washington twice in "a day"), and that on the return leg either him or a co-pilot would really be opera…

Wow that Canada goose thing must have been some story. With the decompression and -60C air coming in at 700 knots. Wow

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#270

Post by WalterBright »

MBCook wrote: post #260
bumby wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because from a safety standpoint, procedural controls are not preferable to engineered controls. PPE controls are lower still. It would be like alleviating a motorcycle manufacturer from responsibility of a bad design by claiming riders wouldn’t be hurt if they were wearing all their protective gear. It may be true while also being sub-standard design practice for a safety-critical system.

Isn’t that exactly what Tesla does? Deflect all autopilot/FSD blame on users because they were supposed to be “in charge“?

Exactly? No. Tesla drivers are not trained in emergency procedures. They're not trained at all.

Pilots are.

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