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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#71

Pilot (piston engine, with only around 20 hours of light jet dual). As a pax on this flight, I might not have noticed much unless I was looking out the window. This seems like a fault of the crew (obviously), but probably more on the PNF (pilot not flying) than the PF (pilot flying). Article says 4 pilots were on board, but fails to mention that 2 of them (relief pilots) were likely not in the cockpit on the departur…

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#72
post #22

"The thing that stands out here the most is the complete lack of control that the crew had over the plane. The crew was managing the computers rather than flying the aircraft ." Perhaps they are "Children of the Magenta": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs ... and I cannot recommend this video enough. I am not a pilot and I have no interest in flying nor any particular interest in aviation, generally ... and…

Great video, thanks.

I find it weird that we learn so little about aviation when the industry has so much to teach us. The checklist manifesto was a great attempt to try to implement checklists in the hospital and other places, but from CRM to workload management there is so much to benefit from what the airline industry has pioneered.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#73
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incident description seems incomplete. With the high takeoff speed and slow climb rate, is it possible that the main error was an incorrect flaps setting?

777 has a takeoff configuration warning system, so unlikely. Far more likely is the pilots simply failed to command sufficient pitch up (higher pitch gives a lower airspeed and higher climb rate [at least in the airspeed and pitch regime we’re talking about here]). Takeoff configuration warning can be silenced, but is an abort before the 80 knot callout.

Disclaimer: My experience in piloting is just a couple of hours flying planes in kerbal space program.

Wouldn't that much speed cause the plane to ascent naturally, even with zero pitch, just by the body lift? (Although, it is quite possible that real life planes have negative body lift, I have no idea)

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#74
post #56
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planes taking off from Boston Logan can fly as low as 300 feet over the neighboring town of Winthrop--and average about 700. I've kayaked in the area and you basically have to stop talking every few minutes when a plane takes off. Arriving flights are even a bit lower (although not as loud).

There was an episode of Cheers about this, where Carla buys a house extremely cheap and then believes it is haunted. After sleeping a night there, she finds out it’s because it is close to where planes land at Logan Airport, which calms her nerves.

Ha. Don't remember that.

I was kayaking with a long ago girlfriend and we were in the parking lot for the Winthrop boat launch. And I do remember we got into some conversation with a local and HE TALKED VERY LOUDLY. Which was something we joked about for a time.

You could actually land your boat at the end of Logan airport from there. But I assume if you were to do so, serious people with serious weaponry would pay you a visit very quickly.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems slightly odd to use an angular unit for airspeed; the linear equivalent would technically depend on altitude. I guess airplanes don't actually fly high enough for that to matter.

It was only ever approximately accurate anyway, a NM is no longer an arc minute because that is inconsistent even along lines of latitude, so it had to be pinned to 1.852km. Aviation, broadly speaking, inherited all of its navigation techniques from the maritime world. In particular, prior to radio methods and to some extent today aviation navigation is based primarily on dead reckoning periodically corrected by obse…

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#76

> suggesting [...]the previous flight crew had left the altitude setting at [...] 00000 feet Does the system really display as "00000"? That seems like an odd design choice, I'd have thought just a single "0" would be far more legible in this scenario, especially if it's on a 7-segment display. I don't think passengers would have noticed this as anything other than a regular takeoff, because ATC does request slow cli…

Speaking of bad UX choices, the FAA is constantly dropping one or two or more digits from numbers like altitudes, runway lengths, heading, timestamps, etc. For example, "the runway from 180° is 5200 feet long" becomes "RWY18 52" which I suppose you get used to, but it's just begging for mixups.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#77
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knots is used for ground speed as well I thought?

Really depends on the context. Usually things that were designed for pilots to use will display ground speed in knots since it's likely the pilot will be comparing against calculations done in knots. Things that were designed for the general public usually show mph since most people don't have a good sense of how fast a knot is. Taxi speeds are always written in knots, so I suppose you could say it is "official" (in…

> So that when kph/mph is heard a pilot knows they're referencing ground speed, whereas knots is air speed.

Who is using MPH/KPH in the course of flying a plane? Why would this ambiguity resolve to “that must be ground speed”? Why would there be ambiguity in a speed readout at all? Surely context and procedure should disambiguate this rather than units?

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#78

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#79

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

> I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there.

It is; there's a picture of it on https://www.godsavethepoints.com/emirates-flight-231-takeoff...

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#80
post #53

75 feets is 22.8 meters. 234 knots is 433km/h.

Which is irrelevant, given this is about aviation where feet and knots are standardized in all but a few former Soviet block countries.

As somebody who doesn't regularly interact with aviation I don't have an intuitive understanding of knots and feet so to me it is helpful to have these translated to units that I "understand".
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