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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#41

I cannot imagine how unbelievably loud and damaging having a 777 fly 75 feet above my house would be.

Planes taking off from Boston Logan can fly as low as 300 feet over the neighboring town of Winthrop--and average about 700. I've kayaked in the area and you basically have to stop talking every few minutes when a plane takes off. Arriving flights are even a bit lower (although not as loud).

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding there are two advantages: - So that when kph/mph is heard a pilot knows they're referencing ground speed, whereas knots is air speed. - Pilots use latitude/longitude, and a knot is "exactly equal to 1/60th of a degree of latitude. A 1/60th of a degree of latitude is known as a minute of latitude. Therefore, a knot is equal to one minute of distance. There are 90 degrees from the equator to the p…

Knots is used for ground speed as well I thought?

I’ve never heard Knots used on land. Sea and Air yes!

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maximum Flap (Placard) Speeds for 777-300 Flaps KIAS 1 255 5 235 15 215 20 200 25 190 30 180 262 is way high for 30 degrees with slats.

You don't take off with 30 degrees of flaps though, fortunately.

Correct. This was likely a flaps 15° (or maybe 20°) departure (being a heavy departure).

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding there are two advantages: - So that when kph/mph is heard a pilot knows they're referencing ground speed, whereas knots is air speed. - Pilots use latitude/longitude, and a knot is "exactly equal to 1/60th of a degree of latitude. A 1/60th of a degree of latitude is known as a minute of latitude. Therefore, a knot is equal to one minute of distance. There are 90 degrees from the equator to the p…

seems slightly odd to use an angular unit for airspeed; the linear equivalent would technically depend on altitude. I guess airplanes don't actually fly high enough for that to matter.

It was only ever approximately accurate anyway, a NM is no longer an arc minute because that is inconsistent even along lines of latitude, so it had to be pinned to 1.852km.

Aviation, broadly speaking, inherited all of its navigation techniques from the maritime world. In particular, prior to radio methods and to some extent today aviation navigation is based primarily on dead reckoning periodically corrected by observations, which is a technique that was pioneered in marine navigation. Since early pilots learned to navigate from seafarers, their units and conventions became strongly embedded in the field. It is, after all, still not unusual to refer to an aircraft as a ship, especially informally.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#45

> suggesting [...]the previous flight crew had left the altitude setting at [...] 00000 feet Does the system really display as "00000"? That seems like an odd design choice, I'd have thought just a single "0" would be far more legible in this scenario, especially if it's on a 7-segment display. I don't think passengers would have noticed this as anything other than a regular takeoff, because ATC does request slow cli…

> I don't think passengers would have noticed this as anything other than a regular takeoff

It looks like the aircraft didn't leave the runway until the runway safety area at the end. That is something any passenger looking out the window could notice. A normal takeoff has the aircraft leaving the runway well before the end.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#46

So instead of telling the next crew to configure the system properly they are instructing the previous crew not to set it wrong? I really can't follow that. Of course it should be checked, every time.

I think there's currently a pilot shortage, and that leads to scary thoughts...

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#49

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

> It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc.

I am not a pilot, but that's exactly what I thought when I read the memo too. They should be putting responsibility for the next flight on the next flight's crew, not the prior flight's crew. Train each crew to assume the plane they're prepping for their next flight is FUBAR in every way, checklist everything, fix it as necessary, and go from there. Don't rely on the prior crew for anything.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#50
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding there are two advantages: - So that when kph/mph is heard a pilot knows they're referencing ground speed, whereas knots is air speed. - Pilots use latitude/longitude, and a knot is "exactly equal to 1/60th of a degree of latitude. A 1/60th of a degree of latitude is known as a minute of latitude. Therefore, a knot is equal to one minute of distance. There are 90 degrees from the equator to the p…

Knots is used for ground speed as well I thought?

Really depends on the context. Usually things that were designed for pilots to use will display ground speed in knots since it's likely the pilot will be comparing against calculations done in knots. Things that were designed for the general public usually show mph since most people don't have a good sense of how fast a knot is.

Taxi speeds are always written in knots, so I suppose you could say it is "official" (in terms of aircraft handbooks, airfield directories, etc) to use knots for ground speed. Of course the situation of an aircraft's ground speed while on the ground is sort of an edge case.

On the topic of odd units, the operating handbooks for jet aircraft often use mach number for limits, which has some of the same properties as KIAS as far as being density dependent but is a little more precisely defined.

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